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hello and welcome to the show

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we are live here

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at uh shag harbor up in nova scotia and

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it's the 50th anniversary i can't see

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myself and that's okay i don't need to

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see myself

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anyway 50th anniversary i'm here with

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jordan bonaparte how you doing jordan

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doing fantastic martin great to to be

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live with you on youtube i've watched

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your show for so long and i've got to

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take part uh through phone a couple

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times it's great to to be here and see

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you um

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suffer through the computer problems in

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person i know i think you actually saved

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me one night right yeah did my show

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crash your show crash and i called on my

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cell phone and you held it up i think

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that's a microphone that was uh and

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someone titled that uh train wreck ufo

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yeah as opposed to podcast

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yeah but anyway we're here in shag

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harbor and uh i left from maine on

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thursday morning

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and it was 18 hour drive i didn't see

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one single moose i was actually pretty

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upset about that

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but uh

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it was a long

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long

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while ago and uh first thing we noticed

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is we had no internet um but uh we made

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it happen yeah right yeah hopefully when

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my phone bill comes in it was worth it

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we'll see just don't pass the bill you

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know that's right and you talk you just

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mentioned moose there when we were

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texting back and forth you were worried

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about moose is this something like do

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you know people who hit moose before

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well no i just see all those signs you

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know alert moose moose you know every

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few feet

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because when i saw you text that i was

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just assuming there's a lot of moose in

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the states but you mean here

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yeah yeah well you know i mean upper

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main okay i mean i used to see them

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around a lot guess that's the thing yeah

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unidentified moose so to speak yeah so

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anyway we're here in shag harbor we just

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came from the panel and that was really

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really great and we're having a few

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people from the panel actually coming

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here and they're going to talk today and

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chris stiles is coming right up and uh

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he's kind of the face of shag harbor

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when you've seen

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watched you know documentaries on tv uh

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chris has really looked deeply into this

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i'm excited to have him on today if not

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the face maybe the like the accountant

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of it like as you know as like a trade

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accountant like he's gathered everything

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put it all together so it makes sense

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and he really like the shag harbor story

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that we tell now

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is is what chris put together yeah now

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one of the the questions i asked the

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panel i thought there were some pretty

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good questions today but one of them was

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i thought there were some myths about

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shag harbor or some exaggerations and

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apparently not most of what you hear out

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there

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is that is that right well i think we'll

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get to that with with chris and the

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eyewitnesses when they join us but i've

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heard so many

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like with these sightings so much stuff

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gets exaggerated or there's just a

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little like fantastic fragment that

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people like to carry on one thing i

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didn't hear them discuss was the the

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idea of um

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i guess a few days after the incident

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people or somebody allegedly saw

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something leave the water and it messed

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up their tv i don't know if you've ever

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heard this side of it but

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for me that's fascinating like for there

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to be some strange electrical activity

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days later but we'll ask we'll ask them

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that yeah and there was a someone that's

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not going to be on our show i don't

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think he's going to come here but it was

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talking about um formations circular

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formations i have not heard anything

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about that but found in 2009 there's

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like four of them on the ocean

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floor in the area

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whether they're natural or not uh he's

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trying to figure that out which i

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thought was pretty interesting yeah that

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was one of the things that came up at

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the witness panel there were the

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witnesses but then there was also

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someone who's researching you know the

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underwater activity and this was kind of

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what he put forward is with the

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anomalies he found underwater but of

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course how would you ever prove they're

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anything but anomalies you know i mean

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there's no

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i wouldn't think there would be any

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trace evidence of any kind after you

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know 50 years 40 years and if there is

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then it's some really cool metals yeah

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yeah right i'd like to introduce our

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first guest

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uh chris welcome to the show

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pleasure to be here yeah for your

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interest yeah it's great and uh so for

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the per um most people

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know about shag harbor courts probably

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everyone that's watching this

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knows the story but in say a five or ten

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minute nutshell can you let us know what

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you know about what happened here back

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in

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august 4th 1967 if i have the date

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writer it's pretty close october the 4th

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did i say august august

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october yes october the 4th 1967

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well i mean if there's anybody there

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that doesn't know already it was that's

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when it all began

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and what would happen that night is

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sometime around 11 20 p.m very near

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where we're sitting

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people who were driving the moon had set

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it was a very clear night with what you

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call a transparent sky

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people seen an unusual

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pattern that wasn't commercial air

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traffic and what they saw was a set of

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flashing lights that went one two three

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four and then they'd flash all together

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this pattern repeated over and over

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the craft produced no noise it hovered

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for some time for several minutes over

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the sound which is just a back of the

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building we're in

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it tilted then to a 45 degree angle

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descended rapidly to the water surface

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and struck it producing a bright flash

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of the sound of an explosion

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people

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temporarily lost sight of it from their

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vehicles over the tree line there was

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very little street lighting here in

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those days and remember not everybody

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had a phone the moon had set for the

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night

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and

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when they get there their concerns were

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for

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the possibility of survivors because one

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of the unique things about this case is

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when they contacted the royal canadian

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mounted police at the nearby barrington

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detachment was the fact that no one

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no one reported a ufo one of the unique

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things about the case it would be the

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authorities days later that would hang

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that label on it anyway those who called

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eventually seven people called you're

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going to have one of them here on the

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show later on the first one to call in

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they called and simply reported what

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they thought was a plane crash or lights

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going to the harbor the rcmp responded

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the call came to the area

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interestingly

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three mounties arrived from two

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different directions two from the

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detachment one that was out on highway

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patrol came from the other direction an

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old highway three and when they got here

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they saw the ufo still on the water the

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officer that came promoting the highway

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saw it in the air even

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when they got there the ufo was still

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there moving around on the water but it

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no longer appeared like fort flashing

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light 60 feet across but a single pale

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dome of light

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they commandeered two local boats and

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started approaching the ufo and it

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either submerged or disappeared before

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they could reach it

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another uh they called the nearby coast

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guard detachment 101 from nearby clarks

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harbor 12 miles away so quiet that night

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they could hear the engine start up here

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promote back of the moss plant

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it came to the scene they searched until

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3 am they discovered a large streak of

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mysterious yellow home that was 80 feet

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wide and half a mile in length

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and

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it was very odd they weren't used to it

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they all agreed it was not normal tidal

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foam it was bubbling to the surface

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and smelt of sulfur and sparkled

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the men just kept flying the lights to

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the water eventually the foam dispersed

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other ships showed up

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they stayed for some hours on the scene

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waiting to see what might float to the

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surface and eventually

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stop at three a.m and resume the search

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at first light eventually this got

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reported to defense headquarters in

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halifax when they once they find no

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missing or late aircraft an underwater

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search is ordered navy divers come down

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this continuous for the next three days

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until the termination of termination of

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search a press release came out claiming

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nil results i guess it was one of those

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things i suppose you could say

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ufologically speaking it has a happy

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ending in that this

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by all accounts from those who were

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there on the scene is the one that got

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right okay

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yeah

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to that point with it being the one that

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got away i understand after this

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happened you know there wasn't much buzz

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around like the shea harbor event

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for years later when a case was opened

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and i know you were behind that can you

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just talk about

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how you found out about this and what

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work you did initially to turn it into

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what it is now or to help it turn itself

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into what it is now sure

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um well at the time i mean there was a

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great deal of interest it became a

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headline story in the halifax chronicle

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herald a conservative broadsheet went

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over the lines line story around the

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world

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uh there was cbc coverage of divers

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going in the water i found 46 seconds of

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silent film shot in the toronto archive

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which has been rented many times out at

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exorbitant rates to the canadian

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broadcasting corporation

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uh they they should send cut me in on

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that stuff anyway um eventually what

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happened though there was the

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termination of search there was

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speculative follow-up articles in the

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local weekly papers and abroad

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fake magazine this sort of thing a lot

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of speculative work but over time it

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slipped into the dustbin of history in

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my presentation today i showed that

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although there was an official

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cancellation of search

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as much as a month later november 2nd

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there was an appeal put up by the

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military every newspaper nova scotia

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except one that i know of on the front

279
00:09:35,990 --> 00:09:32,640
page had military once ufos reported and

280
00:09:38,630 --> 00:09:36,000
the instructions on how to contact

281
00:09:40,389 --> 00:09:38,640
the xo at the back row radar base which

282
00:09:42,389 --> 00:09:40,399
was a norway facility this ended the

283
00:09:43,110 --> 00:09:42,399
pine tree line

284
00:09:44,790 --> 00:09:43,120
so

285
00:09:46,310 --> 00:09:44,800
even though officially been called up

286
00:09:48,230 --> 00:09:46,320
they were still knocking on doors and

287
00:09:50,710 --> 00:09:48,240
checking the shoreline and appealing for

288
00:09:52,710 --> 00:09:50,720
information they wanted answers

289
00:09:55,430 --> 00:09:52,720
now what about the story where they say

290
00:09:57,190 --> 00:09:55,440
that people saw two craft you know one

291
00:09:58,870 --> 00:09:57,200
repairing the other and you know all

292
00:10:00,230 --> 00:09:58,880
that stuff and the craft taking off out

293
00:10:01,990 --> 00:10:00,240
of the water and now you're talking

294
00:10:03,430 --> 00:10:02,000
about the associated

295
00:10:04,790 --> 00:10:03,440
shelburne story

296
00:10:06,470 --> 00:10:04,800
i'm going to answer something that you

297
00:10:07,990 --> 00:10:06,480
you and as we were beginning you

298
00:10:10,710 --> 00:10:08,000
mentioned the sighting about a week

299
00:10:12,630 --> 00:10:10,720
later things going all jiggly on the tv

300
00:10:14,389 --> 00:10:12,640
screen that's actually become known as

301
00:10:16,470 --> 00:10:14,399
the cameron sighting that was one week

302
00:10:17,910 --> 00:10:16,480
later to the hours and it's kind of

303
00:10:20,550 --> 00:10:17,920
reverse instead of seeing something

304
00:10:22,470 --> 00:10:20,560
empty the water what witnesses saw were

305
00:10:25,509 --> 00:10:22,480
two sets of lights one yellow one a

306
00:10:26,949 --> 00:10:25,519
little more orangish rise up out of shag

307
00:10:29,110 --> 00:10:26,959
harbor a little farther the road

308
00:10:30,949 --> 00:10:29,120
offshore and fly out into the gulf of

309
00:10:32,550 --> 00:10:30,959
maine

310
00:10:34,550 --> 00:10:32,560
but the shelburne race you're referring

311
00:10:37,190 --> 00:10:34,560
to was the story that eventually came

312
00:10:38,630 --> 00:10:37,200
forward from the naval divers of hmcs

313
00:10:39,430 --> 00:10:38,640
granby

314
00:10:41,910 --> 00:10:39,440
and

315
00:10:43,350 --> 00:10:41,920
what they reported to me when i tracked

316
00:10:45,509 --> 00:10:43,360
these people down through the former

317
00:10:47,110 --> 00:10:45,519
head of the fleet diving unit was that

318
00:10:49,030 --> 00:10:47,120
they said while they were searching in

319
00:10:51,110 --> 00:10:49,040
shag harbor they already knew the ufo

320
00:10:53,110 --> 00:10:51,120
had evaded them under the water

321
00:10:55,509 --> 00:10:53,120
and there was a second simultaneous

322
00:10:57,670 --> 00:10:55,519
search effort going on up off canadian

323
00:10:59,350 --> 00:10:57,680
forces station shelburne

324
00:11:02,310 --> 00:10:59,360
at that time that was canada's most

325
00:11:04,150 --> 00:11:02,320
secret base a u.s base on canadian soil

326
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:04,160
it was the coordination center for

327
00:11:08,069 --> 00:11:06,160
submarine detection at the height of the

328
00:11:09,750 --> 00:11:08,079
cold war for the whole atlantic ocean

329
00:11:12,150 --> 00:11:09,760
hard linked with their ginsenopa land in

330
00:11:13,829 --> 00:11:12,160
key west florida and what was happening

331
00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:13,839
off the base was that they claim the

332
00:11:18,389 --> 00:11:16,800
divers went down and saw two ufos

333
00:11:20,550 --> 00:11:18,399
resting on the bottom one lending

334
00:11:22,069 --> 00:11:20,560
assistance to the others they actually

335
00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:22,079
claimed to have seen some graze down

336
00:11:25,269 --> 00:11:23,360
there

337
00:11:27,430 --> 00:11:25,279
they shot 400 feet of film which we'll

338
00:11:29,190 --> 00:11:27,440
never find that they claim was sent back

339
00:11:31,030 --> 00:11:29,200
to dartmouth and left at the defense

340
00:11:34,310 --> 00:11:31,040
research board

341
00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:34,320
wow and loved to see it yeah yeah

342
00:11:40,150 --> 00:11:37,600
another uh question i'd like to ask this

343
00:11:41,110 --> 00:11:40,160
it's a speculation question and that is

344
00:11:43,350 --> 00:11:41,120
um

345
00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:43,360
there was a detection of like a sulfur

346
00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:44,880
smell um

347
00:11:48,949 --> 00:11:47,040
and then the yellow foam you know sulfur

348
00:11:51,430 --> 00:11:48,959
being yellow was there ever any

349
00:11:53,509 --> 00:11:51,440
connection i i heard someone say tonight

350
00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:53,519
that they scooped it up and they

351
00:11:56,630 --> 00:11:54,880
couldn't smell any odor and it

352
00:11:59,350 --> 00:11:56,640
disappeared

353
00:12:01,350 --> 00:11:59,360
some people reported its melt of sulfur

354
00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:01,360
and some said it was odorless

355
00:12:05,829 --> 00:12:03,680
all agree it was yellow and was thick

356
00:12:08,949 --> 00:12:05,839
and kind of sparkled and eventually

357
00:12:11,030 --> 00:12:08,959
dissipated in the ebbing tide

358
00:12:12,949 --> 00:12:11,040
i've actually watched a clip of one of

359
00:12:14,710 --> 00:12:12,959
the witnesses on two different episodes

360
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:14,720
and i'm one he remembers the sulfur

361
00:12:18,389 --> 00:12:17,040
smell on the other he says it's odorless

362
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:18,399
you got to remember that when i started

363
00:12:21,509 --> 00:12:19,839
looking into this and you asked me i

364
00:12:24,230 --> 00:12:21,519
should have referred to the dates yes

365
00:12:28,150 --> 00:12:24,240
this happened in 1967 i began my

366
00:12:30,069 --> 00:12:28,160
reinvestigation in 1993 so there's a 26

367
00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:30,079
year of interim it's kind of like that

368
00:12:32,550 --> 00:12:31,360
chapter in the book if you read

369
00:12:33,829 --> 00:12:32,560
something wicked this comes you know

370
00:12:35,430 --> 00:12:33,839
when you turn the page and says that

371
00:12:37,269 --> 00:12:35,440
nothing much else happened the rest of

372
00:12:39,750 --> 00:12:37,279
that night well nothing much else

373
00:12:41,190 --> 00:12:39,760
happened with shag harbor for 26 years

374
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:41,200
until i

375
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:43,600
well guilty as charged i stirred things

376
00:12:46,870 --> 00:12:45,600
back up yeah

377
00:12:48,389 --> 00:12:46,880
well it's kind of in a way it's kind of

378
00:12:49,750 --> 00:12:48,399
like the roswell case i mean that was

379
00:12:52,150 --> 00:12:49,760
dormant for

380
00:12:53,509 --> 00:12:52,160
you know 30 some odd years almost 40

381
00:12:56,069 --> 00:12:53,519
years until it's one of the few

382
00:12:58,230 --> 00:12:56,079
similarities there's not a lot

383
00:13:01,670 --> 00:12:58,240
yeah but i mean it was quiet and then

384
00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:01,680
that's true that's true now since um all

385
00:13:06,389 --> 00:13:03,600
this work that you've been doing uh we

386
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:06,399
had don ledger on recently and and

387
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:08,160
you and i have talked about shaq harbor

388
00:13:13,509 --> 00:13:11,040
before too when you were on the show um

389
00:13:15,269 --> 00:13:13,519
is there any like people coming has

390
00:13:17,670 --> 00:13:15,279
there been any people coming forward and

391
00:13:19,990 --> 00:13:17,680
say hey look you know i remember seeing

392
00:13:21,829 --> 00:13:20,000
something too i mean a lot of people saw

393
00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:21,839
lights and stuff i've had several

394
00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:24,160
approached me today with today new tech

395
00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:26,399
yes today all right

396
00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:28,880
and anything you can talk about

397
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:30,560
yes yes

398
00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:32,320
um i've actually had other people that

399
00:13:37,590 --> 00:13:34,480
claim to have witnessed entities in the

400
00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:37,600
area not on the exact day but in that

401
00:13:40,389 --> 00:13:39,600
sort of flat period of that summer and

402
00:13:42,710 --> 00:13:40,399
fall

403
00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:42,720
here in the shag harbor area and some

404
00:13:47,110 --> 00:13:45,120
locations 50 miles from here

405
00:13:49,110 --> 00:13:47,120
and it was interesting it's hard to say

406
00:13:51,190 --> 00:13:49,120
yet in complete assessment how credible

407
00:13:53,829 --> 00:13:51,200
or not credible they were but they had

408
00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:53,839
some unusual details that were common to

409
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:57,120
some of the other reports i had earlier

410
00:14:01,110 --> 00:13:59,279
things you don't normally associate with

411
00:14:03,509 --> 00:14:01,120
a close encounter such as the beans were

412
00:14:04,550 --> 00:14:03,519
hard to see and sort of come out of

413
00:14:06,310 --> 00:14:04,560
steam

414
00:14:07,910 --> 00:14:06,320
you know and on a clear day you looked

415
00:14:09,430 --> 00:14:07,920
and things that were too distant look

416
00:14:11,509 --> 00:14:09,440
closer to you and

417
00:14:13,670 --> 00:14:11,519
some very kind of almost a reality

418
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:13,680
distortion technique here it sounds very

419
00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:15,120
interesting they're not the sort of

420
00:14:19,269 --> 00:14:16,880
things typically reported on close

421
00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:19,279
encounters and the witnesses at the time

422
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:21,120
were children and younger and you know

423
00:14:24,069 --> 00:14:22,480
it's not something i published or

424
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:24,079
they're included in either book so you

425
00:14:27,110 --> 00:14:25,440
know your ears kind of perk up when you

426
00:14:29,509 --> 00:14:27,120
hear these details

427
00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:29,519
yeah it doesn't mean

428
00:14:33,829 --> 00:14:31,440
that it i wouldn't say that that

429
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:33,839
constitutes proof but it is evidence you

430
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:39,189
your guard kind of goes up when you hear

431
00:14:41,509 --> 00:14:40,560
things that are common in the literature

432
00:14:43,829 --> 00:14:41,519
and when there's something that's

433
00:14:46,069 --> 00:14:43,839
unusual but unique or unique to a case

434
00:14:47,750 --> 00:14:46,079
or a certain period you know you become

435
00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:47,760
a little more interested you ask a few

436
00:14:52,470 --> 00:14:50,000
more questions yeah

437
00:14:54,949 --> 00:14:52,480
do you have a question

438
00:14:57,030 --> 00:14:54,959
now you're known for shag harbor mainly

439
00:14:59,110 --> 00:14:57,040
due to how much work you've done here

440
00:15:00,550 --> 00:14:59,120
are there other cases in nova scotia at

441
00:15:02,310 --> 00:15:00,560
the time that you would have looked into

442
00:15:04,150 --> 00:15:02,320
that just you know that

443
00:15:06,389 --> 00:15:04,160
nothing came of them like what just talk

444
00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:06,399
about when when you first found shag

445
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:08,160
harbor and you started to you know peel

446
00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:10,160
back the onion and peel back the layers

447
00:15:13,829 --> 00:15:12,480
like i'm just wondering how at that time

448
00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:13,839
in your life how many cases were you

449
00:15:17,030 --> 00:15:15,600
looking into that went nowhere and what

450
00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:17,040
was different about this and when did

451
00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:24,790
i could answer that but i'm not sure how

452
00:15:28,710 --> 00:15:26,480
fair the answer is because i i've been a

453
00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:28,720
pretty lucky fellow

454
00:15:33,030 --> 00:15:31,120
i i i've been busy

455
00:15:34,550 --> 00:15:33,040
i've been i i believe that persistence

456
00:15:37,269 --> 00:15:34,560
pays off

457
00:15:40,629 --> 00:15:37,279
and i think unless something is totally

458
00:15:42,389 --> 00:15:40,639
discredited or not worthy from the start

459
00:15:43,750 --> 00:15:42,399
that if you put the effort into it and

460
00:15:45,189 --> 00:15:43,760
you pursue it something's going to flow

461
00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:45,199
to the surface

462
00:15:49,990 --> 00:15:47,600
you know you you don't create details or

463
00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:50,000
whatever but i mean you can tell pretty

464
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:51,600
quickly when something isn't worth the

465
00:15:54,790 --> 00:15:54,000
effort it just doesn't hold together

466
00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:54,800
right

467
00:15:57,749 --> 00:15:56,160
and um

468
00:15:59,430 --> 00:15:57,759
you know shag harbor was good but you

469
00:16:00,790 --> 00:15:59,440
know shag harbor's the gift that keeps

470
00:16:02,629 --> 00:16:00,800
on giving

471
00:16:03,910 --> 00:16:02,639
and i'm not talking monetarily because i

472
00:16:04,870 --> 00:16:03,920
wish it would

473
00:16:06,550 --> 00:16:04,880
but

474
00:16:09,030 --> 00:16:06,560
i'll tell you this

475
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:09,040
for example i i mean and again we don't

476
00:16:12,389 --> 00:16:10,320
have to look any farther than these

477
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:12,399
shores but there are cases right here in

478
00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:14,560
shag harbor that were unknown unreported

479
00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:17,120
in the press three years later that are

480
00:16:21,829 --> 00:16:18,800
staggering

481
00:16:23,189 --> 00:16:21,839
and yes i'll tell you one very briefly

482
00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:23,199
unfortunately

483
00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:25,199
the witnesses are no longer alive here

484
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:27,120
directly but there was a great case i

485
00:16:31,110 --> 00:16:29,440
found because of my work on shag harbor

486
00:16:34,470 --> 00:16:31,120
of a second one in shag harbor in

487
00:16:36,150 --> 00:16:34,480
november 1970 three years later and what

488
00:16:37,749 --> 00:16:36,160
it was is there were two brothers here

489
00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:37,759
who were well known to police and most

490
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:39,040
of the community

491
00:16:43,110 --> 00:16:41,199
i i really would say that one of the

492
00:16:44,949 --> 00:16:43,120
lawrence smith and smith brothers became

493
00:16:47,350 --> 00:16:44,959
a good personal friend of mine and

494
00:16:48,069 --> 00:16:47,360
anyway here's what their case was about

495
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:48,079
is

496
00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:49,600
they had actually gone the last thing on

497
00:16:53,110 --> 00:16:51,040
their mind again

498
00:16:55,269 --> 00:16:53,120
was ufos because they had gone to the

499
00:16:57,509 --> 00:16:55,279
nearby rcmp detachment at barrington

500
00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:57,519
passage to report a missing daughter and

501
00:17:01,189 --> 00:16:58,880
they were quite concerned they thought a

502
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:01,199
young teenage girl when she was only 13

503
00:17:05,350 --> 00:17:03,040
or 14 had run off and was out of the

504
00:17:07,270 --> 00:17:05,360
area and they were concerned when they

505
00:17:08,949 --> 00:17:07,280
left the detachment after filling out

506
00:17:11,029 --> 00:17:08,959
their report with constable ralph

507
00:17:13,029 --> 00:17:11,039
keeping they were headed back to shag

508
00:17:14,390 --> 00:17:13,039
harbor and you know ralph had was a

509
00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:14,400
personal friend to lawrence used to go

510
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:15,600
duck hunting with him and it kind of

511
00:17:19,029 --> 00:17:17,520
calmed him down and he knew what the men

512
00:17:20,470 --> 00:17:19,039
were like they often use their boat and

513
00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:20,480
rescue so they couldn't get the coast

514
00:17:24,710 --> 00:17:22,000
guard to come they had well-equipped

515
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:24,720
boats with radar anyway they were

516
00:17:28,390 --> 00:17:26,640
driving back home to the shag harbor

517
00:17:29,669 --> 00:17:28,400
area and they were on old highway 3

518
00:17:31,830 --> 00:17:29,679
which is just outside the store and

519
00:17:34,150 --> 00:17:31,840
they're at that area between the two

520
00:17:35,909 --> 00:17:34,160
bare point roads and as they're driving

521
00:17:38,549 --> 00:17:35,919
back they'd finally sort of calm down

522
00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:38,559
and said we'll just wait you know when

523
00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:41,039
gene had told you know i think they'll

524
00:17:44,870 --> 00:17:42,960
be fine you know ralph's right she's

525
00:17:45,990 --> 00:17:44,880
done it before and come home and as

526
00:17:47,990 --> 00:17:46,000
they're going around the spin where

527
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:48,000
there's no homes at the time it was

528
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:50,480
foggy out they think they see an orange

529
00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:52,080
light in the middle of the road and gene

530
00:17:55,590 --> 00:17:54,400
starts saying lawrence what's that

531
00:17:57,830 --> 00:17:55,600
and

532
00:17:59,590 --> 00:17:57,840
before he can respond seven lights light

533
00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:59,600
up in a pattern of something like the

534
00:18:03,990 --> 00:18:01,679
big dipper and they were about 18 inches

535
00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:04,000
across and orange these orbs and their

536
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:05,600
first reaction of thought in the heavy

537
00:18:09,029 --> 00:18:07,280
fog was that a tractor trailer had

538
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:09,039
flipped on the highway and they were

539
00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:11,200
seeing the running lights in the fog

540
00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:13,200
so he stomps on the brakes the vehicle

541
00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:15,520
stalls the tape player quits

542
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:17,440
and they realize that there is no object

543
00:18:21,029 --> 00:18:18,960
there there's just these lights hovering

544
00:18:23,029 --> 00:18:21,039
in front of them this persists for what

545
00:18:24,230 --> 00:18:23,039
they estimate to be 30 seconds and they

546
00:18:26,150 --> 00:18:24,240
disappear

547
00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:26,160
the men are quite perturbed and scared

548
00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:28,080
they turn right around drive back to the

549
00:18:32,310 --> 00:18:30,320
barrington passage detachment catch

550
00:18:33,909 --> 00:18:32,320
ralph keeping while he's still there and

551
00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:33,919
they bring him back to the site

552
00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:35,520
keeping's concerned because he knows the

553
00:18:40,150 --> 00:18:37,840
man well and he's surprised how upset

554
00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:40,160
they are and hyper he comes back looks

555
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:42,080
around his flashlight talks to the mask

556
00:18:45,029 --> 00:18:43,679
of a bunch of questions

557
00:18:47,029 --> 00:18:45,039
tells them i'm sure it's nothing

558
00:18:48,789 --> 00:18:47,039
forgetting to go home they're acting

559
00:18:50,549 --> 00:18:48,799
actually like they're going to be ill

560
00:18:52,710 --> 00:18:50,559
and nauseous to their stomach and he

561
00:18:54,470 --> 00:18:52,720
doesn't quite get it and tells him to go

562
00:18:55,909 --> 00:18:54,480
home if he hears anything he'll let them

563
00:18:57,590 --> 00:18:55,919
know

564
00:18:59,909 --> 00:18:57,600
by the way eventually the girl turns up

565
00:19:01,669 --> 00:18:59,919
and she was falling

566
00:19:03,909 --> 00:19:01,679
they go home and that could have been

567
00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:03,919
the end of the story although as the two

568
00:19:07,830 --> 00:19:06,240
brothers depart they swear and tell

569
00:19:09,430 --> 00:19:07,840
ralph keeping they will never drive in

570
00:19:11,590 --> 00:19:09,440
the section of highway again they'll go

571
00:19:13,590 --> 00:19:11,600
around the bare point road to avoid it

572
00:19:15,510 --> 00:19:13,600
they don't want this anymore and again

573
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:15,520
that further puzzles them the next

574
00:19:19,669 --> 00:19:17,760
morning at 9 15 is having this morning

575
00:19:21,750 --> 00:19:19,679
coffee and the detachment and he's

576
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:21,760
writing this up this eight-page mountie

577
00:19:25,590 --> 00:19:23,600
report it probably would have been one

578
00:19:28,230 --> 00:19:25,600
but something happens while he's writing

579
00:19:30,549 --> 00:19:28,240
it he gets a phone call from the back

580
00:19:32,310 --> 00:19:30,559
row base and colonel calvin rushton

581
00:19:34,630 --> 00:19:32,320
calls him and says

582
00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:34,640
have you had any ufo reports last night

583
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:36,720
it's not every day a norad colonel calls

584
00:19:40,789 --> 00:19:39,280
the rcmp in shaggart he said well i'm

585
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:40,799
not sure i'd call it that but we had a

586
00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:42,480
strange incident of two brothers i know

587
00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:44,080
well seeing some lights he goes when

588
00:19:46,870 --> 00:19:45,360
you're finished your civilian

589
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:46,880
investigation please bring it to the

590
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:49,039
base which the amount he did he never

591
00:19:53,750 --> 00:19:51,600
heard back from colonel rustin

592
00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:53,760
well

593
00:19:57,029 --> 00:19:55,600
he goes back and sees the brothers and

594
00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:57,039
they write up this is all very

595
00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:58,240
interesting but ralph keeping did

596
00:20:01,430 --> 00:19:59,520
something that was quite brilliant and

597
00:20:03,110 --> 00:20:01,440
intuitive for the mountie and it didn't

598
00:20:04,549 --> 00:20:03,120
make the report

599
00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:04,559
he went back since he was personal

600
00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:06,000
friend and he got lawrence and he put

601
00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:07,440
him in the back of the cruiser and

602
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:09,840
covered him with a blanket and drove all

603
00:20:13,669 --> 00:20:11,440
up and down the roads and did his best

604
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:13,679
effort to confuse him and whenever he

605
00:20:18,070 --> 00:20:16,080
was near the proximity of the site of

606
00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:18,080
the experience

607
00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:19,440
he freaked out

608
00:20:23,990 --> 00:20:22,080
really he knew he was there wow i don't

609
00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:24,000
know what that means but i know it means

610
00:20:27,510 --> 00:20:25,840
something the other thing is when he

611
00:20:30,149 --> 00:20:27,520
looks at the reports and every detail in

612
00:20:33,590 --> 00:20:30,159
their watches the mountie believe that

613
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:33,600
they had 10 minutes of missing time

614
00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:35,360
10 minutes usually it's a lot you know

615
00:20:38,630 --> 00:20:37,679
you hear about long stretches of but 10

616
00:20:40,149 --> 00:20:38,640
minutes

617
00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:40,159
how did he know that there were two

618
00:20:44,149 --> 00:20:42,080
minutes of missing time i mean

619
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:44,159
between the story their watches the

620
00:20:46,710 --> 00:20:45,360
whole thing

621
00:20:48,549 --> 00:20:46,720
anyway

622
00:20:50,230 --> 00:20:48,559
for a long time they never went near

623
00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:50,240
that spot on the road they never seek

624
00:20:53,909 --> 00:20:52,720
publicity and when i first found him

625
00:20:55,909 --> 00:20:53,919
years later because of this

626
00:20:57,990 --> 00:20:55,919
investigation i went and when i first

627
00:20:59,590 --> 00:20:58,000
met lauren smith he sat there it was

628
00:21:01,830 --> 00:20:59,600
like pulling teeth to get him to make

629
00:21:03,669 --> 00:21:01,840
any comment on this and i showed him the

630
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:03,679
money reports and i violated all the

631
00:21:07,510 --> 00:21:05,280
move on rules because he just wasn't

632
00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:07,520
talking a career for coffee was brought

633
00:21:11,430 --> 00:21:09,120
in the room i had another investigator

634
00:21:13,669 --> 00:21:11,440
with me nothing no response i was about

635
00:21:15,510 --> 00:21:13,679
to lose him my throat was going dry and

636
00:21:16,870 --> 00:21:15,520
i realized there's nothing and i looked

637
00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:16,880
at him i was about to go and he says are

638
00:21:20,470 --> 00:21:19,120
you from the government really i said

639
00:21:21,830 --> 00:21:20,480
god no

640
00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:21,840
and i looked and i never realized it was

641
00:21:25,909 --> 00:21:23,840
so funny both me and eileen were dressed

642
00:21:28,549 --> 00:21:25,919
entirely in black

643
00:21:30,230 --> 00:21:28,559
i said oh i said no certainly not i said

644
00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:30,240
secrecy is not my business and that and

645
00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:31,760
he says

646
00:21:36,789 --> 00:21:34,320
it happened to you

647
00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:36,799
i i what i said he says it happened to

648
00:21:40,149 --> 00:21:37,840
you

649
00:21:41,909 --> 00:21:40,159
i said not that i'm aware of he says i

650
00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:41,919
can tell it did and he finally opened up

651
00:21:46,710 --> 00:21:44,960
and started talking to me and

652
00:21:48,789 --> 00:21:46,720
we got to know one another carl and it's

653
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:48,799
a very mysterious interesting case

654
00:21:53,190 --> 00:21:50,159
especially when you find out there were

655
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:53,200
other such cases here um in the province

656
00:21:57,110 --> 00:21:54,880
but that's because of my work on shag

657
00:21:59,190 --> 00:21:57,120
harbor but you know what there were lots

658
00:22:01,510 --> 00:21:59,200
of these cases that you know they're not

659
00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:01,520
an abduction cereal they're not a crash

660
00:22:06,070 --> 00:22:04,000
they fall between the cracks arguably

661
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:06,080
some of them are rt cases and they're in

662
00:22:09,909 --> 00:22:07,840
the province and it's just rich and

663
00:22:12,950 --> 00:22:09,919
again you find these great coal cases in

664
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:12,960
rcmp files and i only started doing that

665
00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:14,960
because of shag harbor

666
00:22:18,870 --> 00:22:16,720
excellent well thanks so much chris we

667
00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:18,880
really thanks for your interest yes and

668
00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:20,640
thanks for uh joining us i've wanted to

669
00:22:23,909 --> 00:22:22,480
talk to you for a long time so now i

670
00:22:25,750 --> 00:22:23,919
finally did that

671
00:22:27,750 --> 00:22:25,760
check it off the bucket list

672
00:22:29,350 --> 00:22:27,760
all right thanks

673
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:29,360
thank you guys all right so our next

674
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:30,320
guest

675
00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:33,360
is named ralph with an interesting story

676
00:22:40,149 --> 00:22:35,280
now ralph

677
00:22:42,789 --> 00:22:40,159
um he was a pilot for pan am he was

678
00:22:44,789 --> 00:22:42,799
sitting in the right seat and he saw

679
00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:44,799
this incident from the sky and we're

680
00:22:49,270 --> 00:22:46,480
going to talk to him

681
00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:49,280
uh about what he saw how he saw it and

682
00:22:52,549 --> 00:22:50,799
all that

683
00:22:53,909 --> 00:22:52,559
also i'm going to ask him about his

684
00:22:56,630 --> 00:22:53,919
thoughts on witnesses because one of the

685
00:22:59,110 --> 00:22:56,640
things in the eyewitness panel that he

686
00:23:00,789 --> 00:22:59,120
that he discussed was just how um

687
00:23:03,270 --> 00:23:00,799
eyewitness testimony is not you know the

688
00:23:05,510 --> 00:23:03,280
be-all end-all so we'll here's ralph

689
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:05,520
with us now

690
00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:06,960
hey ralph welcome to the show right up

691
00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:10,240
to the mic okay well i'm very really

692
00:23:14,310 --> 00:23:12,240
glad to be here i'm so glad we journeyed

693
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:14,320
up from florida

694
00:23:19,110 --> 00:23:18,240
to join you guys wow yeah hey um so you

695
00:23:21,190 --> 00:23:19,120
saw

696
00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:21,200
something from the sky and this thing

697
00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:23,120
all fell together

698
00:23:28,310 --> 00:23:25,360
at one time you sent out a letter nobody

699
00:23:30,390 --> 00:23:28,320
responded to it but you saw something on

700
00:23:31,830 --> 00:23:30,400
tv that kind of you know

701
00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:31,840
jarred this out of your memory what

702
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:34,080
happened well not exactly there was a

703
00:23:39,830 --> 00:23:36,880
there wasn't an investigator an amateur

704
00:23:40,950 --> 00:23:39,840
investigator who knew the shag harbor

705
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:40,960
story

706
00:23:45,909 --> 00:23:43,600
and he happened to be at my house and we

707
00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:45,919
we began talking and he said

708
00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:48,080
you told me earlier you were retired

709
00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:49,679
airline pilot and

710
00:23:54,470 --> 00:23:51,679
i said yeah and he said did you ever see

711
00:23:56,950 --> 00:23:54,480
anything strange in the sky

712
00:23:59,669 --> 00:23:56,960
and i said only once and he said where

713
00:24:03,669 --> 00:23:59,679
was it and i said nova scotia near

714
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:03,679
yarmouth and he said you mean shag arbor

715
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:06,400
and i said yeah how did you know

716
00:24:11,190 --> 00:24:09,840
he said i know all about that story

717
00:24:13,029 --> 00:24:11,200
and he said

718
00:24:14,789 --> 00:24:13,039
nobody knows

719
00:24:17,669 --> 00:24:14,799
none of the people up there know that

720
00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:17,679
anybody from an airplane

721
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:19,200
saw

722
00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:21,200
you know anything associated with that

723
00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:22,960
incident

724
00:24:28,230 --> 00:24:25,760
may i give your phone number to the

725
00:24:29,669 --> 00:24:28,240
investigators and i said sure

726
00:24:32,230 --> 00:24:29,679
the next day

727
00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:32,240
chris styles and don ledger both called

728
00:24:38,789 --> 00:24:33,520
me

729
00:24:41,110 --> 00:24:38,799
took about an hour

730
00:24:42,230 --> 00:24:41,120
and then i was invited to come up and

731
00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:42,240
join

732
00:24:46,390 --> 00:24:44,159
a reunion in about

733
00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:46,400
2011 i guess

734
00:24:50,950 --> 00:24:48,960
uh and that was when i first met

735
00:24:52,950 --> 00:24:50,960
a lot of the people here

736
00:24:55,110 --> 00:24:52,960
it's been a great association and for

737
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:55,120
the 50th i decided that i had to come

738
00:24:58,310 --> 00:24:56,159
back

739
00:25:00,630 --> 00:24:58,320
great and could you tell what did you

740
00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:00,640
see from the sky and

741
00:25:04,310 --> 00:25:02,400
what happened and what did you you know

742
00:25:05,909 --> 00:25:04,320
what transpired through the whole thing

743
00:25:08,390 --> 00:25:05,919
we were on a

744
00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:08,400
pan am cargo airplane which

745
00:25:14,310 --> 00:25:10,960
just had the crew of three plus i think

746
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:14,320
it had three deadheading crew members

747
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:17,360
just in back of the cockpit

748
00:25:20,230 --> 00:25:18,480
and

749
00:25:23,190 --> 00:25:20,240
we saw

750
00:25:24,549 --> 00:25:23,200
five i believe five lights

751
00:25:27,350 --> 00:25:24,559
in a

752
00:25:30,070 --> 00:25:27,360
slanting formation

753
00:25:32,390 --> 00:25:30,080
and they were blue bluish white i would

754
00:25:33,269 --> 00:25:32,400
i would describe them

755
00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:33,279
and

756
00:25:38,310 --> 00:25:35,520
we initially thought that we had to take

757
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:38,320
some evasion evasive action

758
00:25:43,269 --> 00:25:41,360
but it turned out they mostly just hung

759
00:25:45,430 --> 00:25:43,279
there in space

760
00:25:47,669 --> 00:25:45,440
we queried

761
00:25:48,950 --> 00:25:47,679
radar and they said that they had us in

762
00:25:51,269 --> 00:25:48,960
sight

763
00:25:53,269 --> 00:25:51,279
and i said do you have this traffic up

764
00:25:55,669 --> 00:25:53,279
here at 11 o'clock in sight and he said

765
00:25:57,029 --> 00:25:55,679
no we don't have anything

766
00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:57,039
and i said well we're looking at

767
00:26:00,390 --> 00:25:58,320
something

768
00:26:02,310 --> 00:26:00,400
and he said well do you

769
00:26:04,789 --> 00:26:02,320
i don't have anything do you want to

770
00:26:06,789 --> 00:26:04,799
file a ufo report

771
00:26:09,909 --> 00:26:06,799
i looked at the captain the captain said

772
00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:09,919
please no more paperwork so i said no

773
00:26:14,870 --> 00:26:12,720
thank you and he said well

774
00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:14,880
in five minutes time contact the moncton

775
00:26:18,870 --> 00:26:17,360
center and have a nice trip see you on

776
00:26:21,029 --> 00:26:18,880
the way back

777
00:26:23,029 --> 00:26:21,039
and for the next five minutes before i

778
00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:23,039
spoke to anybody else

779
00:26:29,110 --> 00:26:25,760
we watch these lights

780
00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:31,830
more clearly than i do

781
00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:33,600
it seems

782
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:36,400
that we were approaching these lights

783
00:26:41,669 --> 00:26:38,640
we are traveling across the ground at

784
00:26:44,549 --> 00:26:41,679
about um well mark a2 is eight miles a

785
00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:44,559
minute nautical miles a minute

786
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:47,279
we should have been closing on this

787
00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:48,720
target

788
00:26:52,710 --> 00:26:51,120
but they apparently were moving in the

789
00:26:54,149 --> 00:26:52,720
same direction

790
00:26:56,230 --> 00:26:54,159
and

791
00:26:58,630 --> 00:26:56,240
we really didn't close very much on them

792
00:27:00,630 --> 00:26:58,640
and after five minutes time

793
00:27:02,789 --> 00:27:00,640
they took off

794
00:27:05,669 --> 00:27:02,799
towards the eastern horizon at a

795
00:27:09,110 --> 00:27:05,679
phenomenal rate of speed

796
00:27:11,590 --> 00:27:09,120
and all five or six crewmen all

797
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:11,600
experienced pilots

798
00:27:15,909 --> 00:27:14,880
with plenty of time in the air they all

799
00:27:18,710 --> 00:27:15,919
saw

800
00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:18,720
this target they all looked out

801
00:27:24,070 --> 00:27:21,600
multiple windows different windows

802
00:27:27,029 --> 00:27:24,080
they all saw the same thing and in the

803
00:27:30,149 --> 00:27:27,039
end none of us knew what we had seen or

804
00:27:32,070 --> 00:27:30,159
had ever seen anything like it

805
00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:32,080
and then it was gone

806
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:34,240
and none of us as far as i know has ever

807
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:35,760
seen anything like it in the rest of

808
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:37,600
their career i was a young guy at the

809
00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:42,149
now um when this

810
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:43,919
happened afterward

811
00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:46,480
um did you keep in touch

812
00:27:50,310 --> 00:27:48,320
or did you did this come up in

813
00:27:53,110 --> 00:27:50,320
conversation when you actually were

814
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:53,120
crewed with the same members again

815
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:55,840
i have remained um close friends with

816
00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:57,840
mike the flight engineer

817
00:28:02,230 --> 00:28:00,080
and he gave me his testimony after all

818
00:28:03,909 --> 00:28:02,240
these years he gave it to me i had been

819
00:28:05,909 --> 00:28:03,919
pestering him

820
00:28:08,549 --> 00:28:05,919
for it and he just gave it to me about a

821
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:08,559
week ago and i've given a copy to laurie

822
00:28:13,750 --> 00:28:11,760
wickens for for the museum

823
00:28:16,710 --> 00:28:13,760
and he and i have been remained friends

824
00:28:19,830 --> 00:28:16,720
over the years we've talked often and

825
00:28:22,070 --> 00:28:19,840
and said what is it that we saw

826
00:28:23,990 --> 00:28:22,080
and we don't know to this day

827
00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:24,000
what it was but

828
00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:25,760
there was no doubt about us seeing it

829
00:28:29,590 --> 00:28:27,600
and i and i believe it was the night

830
00:28:32,470 --> 00:28:29,600
before

831
00:28:35,350 --> 00:28:32,480
the the sighting of the lights that went

832
00:28:37,510 --> 00:28:35,360
into the harbor this was not the same

833
00:28:40,230 --> 00:28:37,520
light formation this was a

834
00:28:42,230 --> 00:28:40,240
completely different light formation

835
00:28:44,230 --> 00:28:42,240
but in the same location

836
00:28:46,630 --> 00:28:44,240
that's interesting a lot of people have

837
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:46,640
reported seeing something

838
00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:48,960
within the that you know that day that

839
00:28:52,950 --> 00:28:51,840
evening as well um

840
00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:52,960
when

841
00:28:57,669 --> 00:28:55,760
this thing uh took off you estimate i

842
00:29:00,389 --> 00:28:57,679
heard you estimated that it could have

843
00:29:02,070 --> 00:29:00,399
been up to a thousand it could not

844
00:29:03,190 --> 00:29:02,080
it could have been a lot faster than a

845
00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:03,200
thousand

846
00:29:09,110 --> 00:29:08,080
mean i have never in my life seen

847
00:29:10,870 --> 00:29:09,120
anything

848
00:29:13,909 --> 00:29:10,880
accelerate

849
00:29:15,990 --> 00:29:13,919
that quickly into that terminal velocity

850
00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:16,000
never never saw anything move so fast in

851
00:29:20,870 --> 00:29:18,880
my life nor did the other guys wow and

852
00:29:22,230 --> 00:29:20,880
the last question i know jordan has a

853
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:22,240
question for you but the last question i

854
00:29:27,510 --> 00:29:24,960
have for you your flight engineer um in

855
00:29:30,149 --> 00:29:27,520
his testimony he wrote that the lights

856
00:29:32,710 --> 00:29:30,159
appeared to be opaque like windows was

857
00:29:35,110 --> 00:29:32,720
that your experience too or did you not

858
00:29:37,350 --> 00:29:35,120
think that no and i that's why i

859
00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:37,360
emphasized how two people can see the

860
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:40,480
same thing and remember different and

861
00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:43,520
remember it differently yeah i did not

862
00:29:49,510 --> 00:29:47,039
i did not have that sensation

863
00:29:51,430 --> 00:29:49,520
but this is all 50 years ago it's it's a

864
00:29:52,710 --> 00:29:51,440
it's hard to remember

865
00:29:54,310 --> 00:29:52,720
yeah

866
00:29:55,830 --> 00:29:54,320
the question i wanted to ask ralph is

867
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:55,840
with the amount of time you've spent in

868
00:29:59,029 --> 00:29:57,520
the air you would have seen a lot of

869
00:30:01,350 --> 00:29:59,039
strange things you know whether it's

870
00:30:03,590 --> 00:30:01,360
just odd reflections of stuff in the sky

871
00:30:05,830 --> 00:30:03,600
but i'm just wondering how rare

872
00:30:08,789 --> 00:30:05,840
it is how rare what you saw that night

873
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:08,799
was like could you talk about um like

874
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:10,080
some things that you would have been you

875
00:30:14,789 --> 00:30:11,760
would have encountered just in your

876
00:30:16,710 --> 00:30:14,799
career in in the sky

877
00:30:18,310 --> 00:30:16,720
just to give an idea of what um because

878
00:30:19,830 --> 00:30:18,320
i don't fly a lot but i imagine if i

879
00:30:23,110 --> 00:30:19,840
spent you know hours and hours i would

880
00:30:25,830 --> 00:30:23,120
see strange stuff but how rare is it

881
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:25,840
well over the years i have seen strange

882
00:30:29,909 --> 00:30:27,120
things

883
00:30:32,870 --> 00:30:29,919
when they first appeared but then

884
00:30:34,789 --> 00:30:32,880
we recognized them for what they really

885
00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:34,799
were in other words the true identity

886
00:30:39,350 --> 00:30:38,240
was revealed as the moon rose or the sun

887
00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:39,360
rose

888
00:30:43,430 --> 00:30:41,760
or one of the planets

889
00:30:45,669 --> 00:30:43,440
that looked like an approaching airplane

890
00:30:47,510 --> 00:30:45,679
was suddenly revealed to be

891
00:30:50,710 --> 00:30:47,520
just a planet

892
00:30:52,789 --> 00:30:50,720
i i had flown i was based in

893
00:30:54,310 --> 00:30:52,799
newfoundland and i had flown this area

894
00:30:55,830 --> 00:30:54,320
many times

895
00:30:58,630 --> 00:30:55,840
in the military

896
00:30:59,909 --> 00:30:58,640
and then with pan am

897
00:31:01,190 --> 00:30:59,919
and

898
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:01,200
none of us

899
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:04,240
ever saw anything like that i would have

900
00:31:08,470 --> 00:31:06,880
to say that uh that uh

901
00:31:09,830 --> 00:31:08,480
it was different from anything that i

902
00:31:13,190 --> 00:31:09,840
had ever seen

903
00:31:14,549 --> 00:31:13,200
and and uh to answer your question

904
00:31:18,549 --> 00:31:14,559
it's very

905
00:31:22,310 --> 00:31:18,559
none of my

906
00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:22,320
anything like that

907
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:24,480
now um

908
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:26,640
how taboo is it

909
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:29,440
for a pilot a commercial pilot

910
00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:30,240
to

911
00:31:36,230 --> 00:31:32,960
report a ufo or were you ever aware that

912
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:37,029
well

913
00:31:42,549 --> 00:31:39,600
i think that the only taboo is that

914
00:31:44,389 --> 00:31:42,559
nobody wants to to relate a story that

915
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:44,399
people will giggle about and say that's

916
00:31:48,710 --> 00:31:45,679
ridiculous

917
00:31:50,389 --> 00:31:48,720
and probably the great restraint

918
00:31:51,909 --> 00:31:50,399
on anybody

919
00:31:54,630 --> 00:31:51,919
reporting

920
00:31:56,870 --> 00:31:54,640
a strange observation in the sky

921
00:31:58,470 --> 00:31:56,880
is the thought that people aren't going

922
00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:58,480
to believe this people are going to

923
00:32:03,350 --> 00:32:00,960
ridicule me so that's why

924
00:32:04,789 --> 00:32:03,360
in my estimation why so many people just

925
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:04,799
don't say anything

926
00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:06,720
because they they think well who's going

927
00:32:10,070 --> 00:32:08,399
to believe this this is silly this is

928
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:10,080
strange

929
00:32:14,710 --> 00:32:12,720
there's no explanation

930
00:32:16,789 --> 00:32:14,720
is that is that how you feel

931
00:32:18,470 --> 00:32:16,799
and until you actually

932
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:18,480
have this validated that something

933
00:32:24,310 --> 00:32:21,120
happened did you feel that way well my

934
00:32:27,269 --> 00:32:24,320
experience initially for the first 42

935
00:32:29,909 --> 00:32:28,870
after this incident

936
00:32:32,630 --> 00:32:29,919
my

937
00:32:34,149 --> 00:32:32,640
an initial feeling was that maybe i

938
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:34,159
shouldn't say so much because people

939
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:37,440
will think i'm a coop but once i

940
00:32:41,350 --> 00:32:39,840
was united with all of the good people

941
00:32:44,149 --> 00:32:41,360
of shag harbor

942
00:32:46,710 --> 00:32:44,159
and the others who had seen it i had the

943
00:32:48,310 --> 00:32:46,720
corroboration that i felt i needed i

944
00:32:51,029 --> 00:32:48,320
could tell my story and because if

945
00:32:53,750 --> 00:32:51,039
people said oh that's crazy i'd say well

946
00:32:55,029 --> 00:32:53,760
there's about 70 other people that saw

947
00:32:57,509 --> 00:32:55,039
similar things

948
00:32:59,669 --> 00:32:57,519
in the sky that night

949
00:33:03,430 --> 00:32:59,679
wow uh someone's actually texting from

950
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:05,029
yeah we have a an audience here i'm

951
00:33:09,029 --> 00:33:07,200
sorry i can't turn the camera around a

952
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:09,039
few people are in here how you doing

953
00:33:11,350 --> 00:33:10,480
everyone

954
00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:11,360
um

955
00:33:14,470 --> 00:33:12,559
and

956
00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:14,480
uh why doesn't everyone say hi to

957
00:33:22,630 --> 00:33:21,110
there okay just so they know i'm not

958
00:33:24,710 --> 00:33:22,640
lying

959
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:24,720
we made this up

960
00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:27,600
that was the soundtrack yeah

961
00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:30,880
so i i appreciate that you uh came

962
00:33:34,789 --> 00:33:33,360
forward and uh someone asked a really

963
00:33:37,430 --> 00:33:34,799
good question

964
00:33:38,950 --> 00:33:37,440
at uh the event and do you remember what

965
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:38,960
that was we were talking about that was

966
00:33:41,509 --> 00:33:40,320
a really good question about other

967
00:33:43,669 --> 00:33:41,519
pilots

968
00:33:44,950 --> 00:33:43,679
yeah that was just the question of

969
00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:44,960
when

970
00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:46,720
the question was one of the guests that

971
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:48,640
the witness panel had asked is when when

972
00:33:51,990 --> 00:33:50,640
a group of pilots are together and you

973
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:52,000
know and you're feeling casual maybe

974
00:33:55,430 --> 00:33:53,760
having drinks what not

975
00:33:57,909 --> 00:33:55,440
is it is it common that you get into a

976
00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:57,919
discussion surrounding you know ufos and

977
00:34:01,269 --> 00:34:00,240
the the uh the presence of them in the

978
00:34:03,830 --> 00:34:01,279
sky

979
00:34:06,549 --> 00:34:03,840
that's right well i would say it is very

980
00:34:08,950 --> 00:34:06,559
uncommon because not many of the

981
00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:08,960
thousands of pilots that i have that i

982
00:34:14,629 --> 00:34:12,159
know today and have known over my career

983
00:34:15,829 --> 00:34:14,639
almost none of them ever saw anything

984
00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:15,839
like that

985
00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:18,000
they may have seen other

986
00:34:23,669 --> 00:34:20,879
less spectacular things they were not

987
00:34:26,710 --> 00:34:23,679
inclined to speak about them and um

988
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:26,720
and nor was i as i say until i got until

989
00:34:32,310 --> 00:34:28,960
i felt brave because i had all of these

990
00:34:33,909 --> 00:34:32,320
corroborating witnesses right right well

991
00:34:36,069 --> 00:34:33,919
i'm glad you made it up here it was a

992
00:34:37,909 --> 00:34:36,079
real pleasure meeting you and it's been

993
00:34:39,669 --> 00:34:37,919
a great afternoon and i'm looking

994
00:34:42,230 --> 00:34:39,679
forward to tomorrow thank you very much

995
00:34:43,389 --> 00:34:42,240
excellent thank you thank you ralph

996
00:34:45,190 --> 00:34:43,399
all

997
00:34:46,829 --> 00:34:45,200
right

998
00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:46,839
extension

999
00:34:52,069 --> 00:34:51,280
so all right uh so next we have um i

1000
00:34:53,669 --> 00:34:52,079
think

1001
00:34:55,349 --> 00:34:53,679
probably one of the most wouldn't you

1002
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:55,359
call them the most familiar face

1003
00:34:58,950 --> 00:34:57,119
absolutely yeah absolutely like if you

1004
00:35:01,190 --> 00:34:58,960
read any shag harbor

1005
00:35:02,630 --> 00:35:01,200
article it's an interview with him any

1006
00:35:05,109 --> 00:35:02,640
shag harbor documentary that's worth

1007
00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:05,119
watching includes him yeah

1008
00:35:09,430 --> 00:35:07,760
and he's the character of the shag the

1009
00:35:10,950 --> 00:35:09,440
rodney dangerfield of the shag harbor

1010
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:10,960
incident

1011
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:13,200
hillary so true good to see you

1012
00:35:20,310 --> 00:35:16,960
all right scoot scoot him right in yeah

1013
00:35:21,829 --> 00:35:20,320
uh lawyer wickens how are you i i saw i

1014
00:35:24,550 --> 00:35:21,839
think i've seen you

1015
00:35:26,630 --> 00:35:24,560
forever on this story you know i mean

1016
00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:26,640
you were you were the you were in the

1017
00:35:31,750 --> 00:35:30,240
car right right yeah so um welcome to

1018
00:35:32,390 --> 00:35:31,760
the show thank you it's an honor having

1019
00:35:33,109 --> 00:35:32,400
you

1020
00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:33,119
yeah

1021
00:35:37,109 --> 00:35:35,440
and you are a native you are uh i was

1022
00:35:39,030 --> 00:35:37,119
born here yes yes

1023
00:35:41,109 --> 00:35:39,040
what did they say

1024
00:35:45,430 --> 00:35:41,119
no i ain't from shag arbor oh you're not

1025
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:47,750
oh bear point yes yeah i saw that sign

1026
00:35:51,190 --> 00:35:49,200
yeah that's not that far away you live

1027
00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:51,200
in jail but i am from bearboy yeah i

1028
00:35:55,589 --> 00:35:54,000
lived in banford at the time yeah so uh

1029
00:35:57,510 --> 00:35:55,599
why don't you give can you give your

1030
00:35:58,950 --> 00:35:57,520
account of what you saw that night and

1031
00:36:00,470 --> 00:35:58,960
and what you did and what you thought

1032
00:36:02,550 --> 00:36:00,480
that you thought you were seeing a plane

1033
00:36:03,990 --> 00:36:02,560
crash right well there was five of us in

1034
00:36:05,750 --> 00:36:04,000
the car and we were driving from

1035
00:36:07,190 --> 00:36:05,760
barrington and was going from east to

1036
00:36:09,190 --> 00:36:07,200
west

1037
00:36:10,950 --> 00:36:09,200
and then we got out there in jag armor

1038
00:36:13,349 --> 00:36:10,960
backline where we are right now a little

1039
00:36:17,109 --> 00:36:13,359
ways on top of the hell by the museum

1040
00:36:20,630 --> 00:36:18,790
in this guy like they looked like they

1041
00:36:22,390 --> 00:36:20,640
was on a plane and it was in over land

1042
00:36:23,990 --> 00:36:22,400
not over the water

1043
00:36:26,550 --> 00:36:24,000
and as we were driving along it seemed

1044
00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:26,560
to be going along with us

1045
00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:28,160
and when we got up by where the school

1046
00:36:33,589 --> 00:36:29,520
is and we

1047
00:36:38,710 --> 00:36:36,310
the light started from flying flat to a

1048
00:36:40,150 --> 00:36:38,720
45 degree angle and went down

1049
00:36:41,670 --> 00:36:40,160
and we made the top of the hill we could

1050
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:41,680
see the light in the water

1051
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:42,960
we went to the phone booth called the

1052
00:36:46,390 --> 00:36:44,880
rcmp

1053
00:36:48,310 --> 00:36:46,400
from there we come back to what they

1054
00:36:49,910 --> 00:36:48,320
call the moss plant we see the light in

1055
00:36:51,430 --> 00:36:49,920
the water there we washed it dressed

1056
00:36:52,870 --> 00:36:51,440
down by

1057
00:36:55,270 --> 00:36:52,880
and finally the light went out there's

1058
00:36:57,109 --> 00:36:55,280
about 20 people there down three rcmp

1059
00:36:58,630 --> 00:36:57,119
officers

1060
00:37:00,470 --> 00:36:58,640
and the light must have been in the

1061
00:37:02,310 --> 00:37:00,480
water roughly an hour from the farm we

1062
00:37:03,109 --> 00:37:02,320
first see it in the water until it went

1063
00:37:05,349 --> 00:37:03,119
out

1064
00:37:06,950 --> 00:37:05,359
and shortly after that two fishing boats

1065
00:37:08,470 --> 00:37:06,960
from air went out

1066
00:37:11,109 --> 00:37:08,480
because everybody's out of the plane to

1067
00:37:12,630 --> 00:37:11,119
look for a wreckage or whatever and

1068
00:37:14,550 --> 00:37:12,640
i went out on the coast guard being one

1069
00:37:15,990 --> 00:37:14,560
of the rcmp officers ron o'brien but

1070
00:37:17,829 --> 00:37:16,000
that had to come out ahead of the wharf

1071
00:37:19,589 --> 00:37:17,839
to prospect point pick us up then we was

1072
00:37:21,670 --> 00:37:19,599
an hour behind them

1073
00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:21,680
and the time as we got there they talked

1074
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:22,960
about the phone but there was very

1075
00:37:27,190 --> 00:37:24,960
little outlet

1076
00:37:29,349 --> 00:37:27,200
so well how long of a night was that for

1077
00:37:31,430 --> 00:37:29,359
you was you up all night trying probably

1078
00:37:34,150 --> 00:37:31,440
four o'clock so before we come back in

1079
00:37:35,990 --> 00:37:34,160
on the coast guard wow

1080
00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:36,000
and you were you were how you were 17

1081
00:37:39,270 --> 00:37:37,599
then yes i'd have been 18 the end of the

1082
00:37:40,710 --> 00:37:39,280
month so when you got home at four in

1083
00:37:42,470 --> 00:37:40,720
the morning did you explain to your

1084
00:37:45,430 --> 00:37:42,480
parents sorry i'm late with the car i

1085
00:37:47,109 --> 00:37:45,440
saw a ufo no we didn't see a ufo i don't

1086
00:37:51,030 --> 00:37:47,119
know why everybody gets that bomb we see

1087
00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:51,040
a ufo we see reported the plane grass

1088
00:37:56,790 --> 00:37:53,760
now um usually in a plane crash you hear

1089
00:37:59,670 --> 00:37:56,800
about you know debris uh oil slick or

1090
00:38:00,950 --> 00:37:59,680
something like that um

1091
00:38:02,390 --> 00:38:00,960
i know there was nothing found so you

1092
00:38:03,670 --> 00:38:02,400
were on the coast guard what did what

1093
00:38:05,109 --> 00:38:03,680
were they saying what were they saying

1094
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:05,119
well they weren't saying much we just

1095
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:06,640
looking for stuff and we didn't see

1096
00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:08,880
nothing they called rescue coordination

1097
00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:11,200
alabama halifax told them to go back in

1098
00:38:14,069 --> 00:38:11,920
and

1099
00:38:17,829 --> 00:38:14,079
they went back here the next day yeah

1100
00:38:19,670 --> 00:38:17,839
yeah okay now that was found

1101
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:19,680
just to let you know in the audience if

1102
00:38:24,069 --> 00:38:21,839
there's anyone that has a question and

1103
00:38:26,790 --> 00:38:24,079
you want him to answer live on the show

1104
00:38:28,390 --> 00:38:26,800
just raise your hand

1105
00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:28,400
but you won't we'd be glad to ask a

1106
00:38:33,030 --> 00:38:30,560
question for you and uh we also have a

1107
00:38:34,630 --> 00:38:33,040
chat room as well

1108
00:38:36,470 --> 00:38:34,640
uh

1109
00:38:39,190 --> 00:38:36,480
i got a question for you lori you're

1110
00:38:41,750 --> 00:38:39,200
such a down-to-earth guy fisherman a

1111
00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:41,760
regular kind of guy this is such an

1112
00:38:45,430 --> 00:38:43,920
unusual sighting you're in documentaries

1113
00:38:46,950 --> 00:38:45,440
all the time you're in the newspaper all

1114
00:38:48,790 --> 00:38:46,960
the time when you go to the grocery

1115
00:38:50,150 --> 00:38:48,800
store and you know people recognize you

1116
00:38:51,349 --> 00:38:50,160
is do they bring this up and what kind

1117
00:38:52,470 --> 00:38:51,359
of things do people say to you about

1118
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:52,480
this

1119
00:38:55,750 --> 00:38:54,079
nothing much you said around there what

1120
00:38:57,750 --> 00:38:55,760
i noticed about it

1121
00:38:59,589 --> 00:38:57,760
when sightings and mr yonder first

1122
00:39:01,349 --> 00:38:59,599
played it i've got a hunting camp up in

1123
00:39:02,710 --> 00:39:01,359
the other side of toronto

1124
00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:02,720
and i went into some stores and

1125
00:39:06,470 --> 00:39:04,880
different places and somebody say

1126
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:06,480
i know you i've seen you before and i

1127
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:08,400
say yeah you see me but i've never seen

1128
00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:09,599
you

1129
00:39:12,550 --> 00:39:11,359
and i'd leave it at that and i don't

1130
00:39:14,950 --> 00:39:12,560
think they had to play what i was

1131
00:39:16,630 --> 00:39:14,960
talking about

1132
00:39:19,030 --> 00:39:16,640
i'd say yes you've definitely seen me

1133
00:39:20,550 --> 00:39:19,040
but i've never seen you uh lori what do

1134
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:20,560
you think about um

1135
00:39:25,270 --> 00:39:22,960
what do you think about when people are

1136
00:39:27,109 --> 00:39:25,280
like the debunkers i don't want to say

1137
00:39:29,670 --> 00:39:27,119
everyone has a right to be skeptical but

1138
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:29,680
when someone is just outright saying you

1139
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:31,440
know these are flares or whatever it is

1140
00:39:33,910 --> 00:39:32,400
you're saying

1141
00:39:35,109 --> 00:39:33,920
does that get your goat does that get

1142
00:39:37,109 --> 00:39:35,119
you angry

1143
00:39:38,470 --> 00:39:37,119
well i'd rather waste time with them i

1144
00:39:40,470 --> 00:39:38,480
know different

1145
00:39:41,910 --> 00:39:40,480
flares were out of the water that was

1146
00:39:43,510 --> 00:39:41,920
seen in there so how could it be

1147
00:39:45,190 --> 00:39:43,520
claire's yeah

1148
00:39:46,470 --> 00:39:45,200
well they say yeah one fellow steamed

1149
00:39:47,829 --> 00:39:46,480
the boat down they went under that

1150
00:39:49,750 --> 00:39:47,839
bridge i don't know how they got it they

1151
00:39:51,670 --> 00:39:49,760
only got four foot in the boat was ten

1152
00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:51,680
foot high then they had to steam it up

1153
00:39:55,349 --> 00:39:53,359
to a dam so they got out of that forty

1154
00:39:56,470 --> 00:39:55,359
five buck boat hold it up over the day

1155
00:39:58,310 --> 00:39:56,480
and then got the water and set the

1156
00:40:00,630 --> 00:39:58,320
flares off

1157
00:40:02,470 --> 00:40:00,640
yeah that's my opinion although if you

1158
00:40:04,390 --> 00:40:02,480
believe that then you believe it flares

1159
00:40:06,870 --> 00:40:04,400
yeah yeah did you have a question

1160
00:40:08,870 --> 00:40:06,880
okay no that was what i wanted to ask

1161
00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:08,880
because i see you online often people

1162
00:40:12,550 --> 00:40:10,560
will talk about shag harbor you get

1163
00:40:14,390 --> 00:40:12,560
tagged in the posts whenever anyone

1164
00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:14,400
brings up flares that's like a real hot

1165
00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:17,520
spot you seem to not react well to that

1166
00:40:20,870 --> 00:40:19,200
have you been hearing about flares and

1167
00:40:22,310 --> 00:40:20,880
you know and no they're just too they're

1168
00:40:26,230 --> 00:40:22,320
just two or three people say it and it

1169
00:40:28,390 --> 00:40:26,240
was players hey yes the bomb portage is

1170
00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:28,400
a rockweed tow boat from the rocky

1171
00:40:31,829 --> 00:40:30,640
planet up there did that flares off that

1172
00:40:33,270 --> 00:40:31,839
evening

1173
00:40:36,069 --> 00:40:33,280
nine o'clock

1174
00:40:37,589 --> 00:40:36,079
that's 15 10 30 so hey don't worry if

1175
00:40:39,349 --> 00:40:37,599
the government could set it was players

1176
00:40:41,349 --> 00:40:39,359
that got in all of this

1177
00:40:42,710 --> 00:40:41,359
where we are today they have gladly said

1178
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:42,720
it was players

1179
00:40:45,589 --> 00:40:44,160
shut it down the government definitely

1180
00:40:47,190 --> 00:40:45,599
said it wasn't players the government

1181
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:47,200
calls it a ufo

1182
00:40:51,750 --> 00:40:49,760
not me none of us everybody reported 12

1183
00:40:54,310 --> 00:40:51,760
calls to the rcmp that night everybody

1184
00:40:57,589 --> 00:40:54,320
reported the plane crash

1185
00:40:59,349 --> 00:40:57,599
see what i mean when i bring up flares

1186
00:41:01,589 --> 00:40:59,359
that the next thing is that's all right

1187
00:41:03,990 --> 00:41:01,599
i made my point

1188
00:41:06,069 --> 00:41:04,000
so uh so this had happened an amount of

1189
00:41:07,109 --> 00:41:06,079
time went by like chris said 26 years

1190
00:41:08,550 --> 00:41:07,119
and nothing

1191
00:41:10,550 --> 00:41:08,560
how did you feel when you first heard

1192
00:41:12,390 --> 00:41:10,560
from chris and don ledger and all this

1193
00:41:13,670 --> 00:41:12,400
interest happened you know what you must

1194
00:41:15,270 --> 00:41:13,680
have felt you know like you were swept

1195
00:41:17,589 --> 00:41:15,280
away just talk about that

1196
00:41:19,270 --> 00:41:17,599
well i remember first coming just want

1197
00:41:22,069 --> 00:41:19,280
to do interview about what we've seen no

1198
00:41:24,790 --> 00:41:22,079
never be no more did you do it really

1199
00:41:26,470 --> 00:41:24,800
and it wasn't the last few years after

1200
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:26,480
i stopped working got involved with quit

1201
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:28,319
doing some research on it

1202
00:41:31,349 --> 00:41:30,000
you starting to think back to then they

1203
00:41:33,030 --> 00:41:31,359
would never had nothing they could fly

1204
00:41:34,950 --> 00:41:33,040
that slower than a helicopter and that

1205
00:41:36,550 --> 00:41:34,960
would have been pieces there

1206
00:41:38,069 --> 00:41:36,560
another thing when you think about it we

1207
00:41:40,470 --> 00:41:38,079
said plane grass well we didn't know

1208
00:41:42,470 --> 00:41:40,480
nothing about ufos until you took your

1209
00:41:44,230 --> 00:41:42,480
grand am some plane

1210
00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:44,240
but if you stop and think no flashing it

1211
00:41:47,750 --> 00:41:45,920
was going that night

1212
00:41:49,109 --> 00:41:47,760
it wasn't going over 40 mile an hour and

1213
00:41:51,030 --> 00:41:49,119
it was only going like that when it went

1214
00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:51,040
down so did he crash or did he land on

1215
00:41:54,550 --> 00:41:52,000
his own

1216
00:41:57,190 --> 00:41:54,560
right question i can't answer that yeah

1217
00:41:58,710 --> 00:41:57,200
we reported a plane crash no we didn't

1218
00:42:01,030 --> 00:41:58,720
see it go in the water

1219
00:42:03,270 --> 00:42:01,040
now what were things like in your life

1220
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:03,280
the days following this event when

1221
00:42:06,870 --> 00:42:05,040
they're on the coast guard they didn't

1222
00:42:09,190 --> 00:42:06,880
go where we told them they were flashy

1223
00:42:12,790 --> 00:42:09,200
and that's been the last i remember

1224
00:42:14,630 --> 00:42:12,800
but i mean like days after this

1225
00:42:16,870 --> 00:42:14,640
when you first heard that them calling

1226
00:42:19,270 --> 00:42:16,880
it a ufo it was on a sunday afternoon

1227
00:42:21,510 --> 00:42:19,280
when i see an rcmp officer or

1228
00:42:23,109 --> 00:42:21,520
saturday afternoon in the bowling alley

1229
00:42:26,309 --> 00:42:23,119
he said you know what you see

1230
00:42:32,790 --> 00:42:26,319
he said they see you they said you see a

1231
00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:36,390
we are no longer safe for work

1232
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:38,319
okay yeah one thing is this is such a

1233
00:42:41,589 --> 00:42:40,319
canadian sighting even like you say

1234
00:42:43,510 --> 00:42:41,599
you're at the bowling alley when this

1235
00:42:45,510 --> 00:42:43,520
stuff happens it's all these fishermen

1236
00:42:47,430 --> 00:42:45,520
in rural nova scotia even at the witness

1237
00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:47,440
panel everyone had a tim hortons cop you

1238
00:42:50,790 --> 00:42:49,200
know it's it's that's what they call it

1239
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:50,800
canada's roswell i think that's just

1240
00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:52,640
because it's such a canadian story not

1241
00:42:57,589 --> 00:42:54,160
so much because it's you know the most

1242
00:42:59,990 --> 00:42:57,599
well-known canadian sighting right right

1243
00:43:02,069 --> 00:43:00,000
well uh this has been awesome it and

1244
00:43:03,589 --> 00:43:02,079
it's been a real pleasure to meet you

1245
00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:03,599
really has thank you great to see you

1246
00:43:06,230 --> 00:43:05,040
again laurie

1247
00:43:16,150 --> 00:43:06,240
all right

1248
00:43:19,510 --> 00:43:16,160
is our uh uh justin why don't you come

1249
00:43:22,309 --> 00:43:19,520
say hi now uh justin

1250
00:43:25,349 --> 00:43:22,319
is uh lives here in nova scotia

1251
00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:25,359
um he's a listener to the

1252
00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:27,440
uh show has been following the show all

1253
00:43:31,190 --> 00:43:28,560
along

1254
00:43:33,589 --> 00:43:31,200
um so i just thought i'd say

1255
00:43:36,870 --> 00:43:33,599
that uh he could introduce himself and

1256
00:43:39,190 --> 00:43:36,880
say hello to everyone and

1257
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:39,200
welcome to the show hello oh yeah you're

1258
00:43:42,550 --> 00:43:40,640
gonna have to scoot over a little bit

1259
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:42,560
martin

1260
00:43:48,630 --> 00:43:46,800
harbor ufo chasing willis

1261
00:43:50,150 --> 00:43:48,640
how you doing i'm trying to fill in for

1262
00:43:51,910 --> 00:43:50,160
alejandro because i know he couldn't be

1263
00:43:53,430 --> 00:43:51,920
here oh yeah that was on the show that

1264
00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:53,440
was a pretty good alejandro that wasn't

1265
00:43:58,870 --> 00:43:56,400
bad it wasn't bad yeah yeah so you you

1266
00:44:01,109 --> 00:43:58,880
live right here or you live in nova

1267
00:44:04,150 --> 00:44:01,119
scotia i do i live in uh the capital of

1268
00:44:06,470 --> 00:44:04,160
halifax nova scotia about uh two hours

1269
00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:06,480
and 45 minutes if you keep your foot on

1270
00:44:10,230 --> 00:44:08,400
the pedal yeah yeah

1271
00:44:12,950 --> 00:44:10,240
and what have you thought um you went to

1272
00:44:14,470 --> 00:44:12,960
this event you said it was great earlier

1273
00:44:16,550 --> 00:44:14,480
today

1274
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:16,560
this actually was the best shag harbor

1275
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:18,880
festival i've seen yet

1276
00:44:22,710 --> 00:44:21,040
the amount of support of the people that

1277
00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:22,720
have come out um

1278
00:44:26,150 --> 00:44:24,880
the original eyewitnesses that have been

1279
00:44:27,030 --> 00:44:26,160
here

1280
00:44:28,710 --> 00:44:27,040
um

1281
00:44:30,870 --> 00:44:28,720
have been extraordinary i've never ever

1282
00:44:33,829 --> 00:44:30,880
seen that happen and to have them all

1283
00:44:36,150 --> 00:44:33,839
on stage at the same time and recount uh

1284
00:44:38,630 --> 00:44:36,160
their memory of the event was was quite

1285
00:44:41,190 --> 00:44:38,640
amazing um the first year i came here

1286
00:44:43,430 --> 00:44:41,200
was about i guess it was 2012 because

1287
00:44:45,510 --> 00:44:43,440
like you guys i i had a show back in the

1288
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:45,520
day for a couple years

1289
00:44:49,990 --> 00:44:47,839
um and i came down to the festival to

1290
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:50,000
sort of cover it and you know stan the

1291
00:44:53,109 --> 00:44:51,440
man was down here of course because he

1292
00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:53,119
was he's our ambassador on the east

1293
00:44:57,510 --> 00:44:55,200
coast of canada that's uh stanton

1294
00:44:59,510 --> 00:44:57,520
friedman and uh did a little interview

1295
00:45:01,109 --> 00:44:59,520
with him and i was kind of disappointed

1296
00:45:04,309 --> 00:45:01,119
because i was expecting a lot more out

1297
00:45:07,430 --> 00:45:04,319
of an event that was so huge in canadian

1298
00:45:08,630 --> 00:45:07,440
ufological history and when i got here

1299
00:45:11,030 --> 00:45:08,640
um

1300
00:45:13,190 --> 00:45:11,040
there was about a dozen people in in the

1301
00:45:15,910 --> 00:45:13,200
community hall here at shag harbor

1302
00:45:18,470 --> 00:45:15,920
this year now that it's down the road

1303
00:45:20,470 --> 00:45:18,480
in a bigger venue it was astonishing to

1304
00:45:23,190 --> 00:45:20,480
see it was packed there must have been i

1305
00:45:26,230 --> 00:45:23,200
felt like a 150 or 200 people had showed

1306
00:45:28,069 --> 00:45:26,240
up at one point yeah and 150 or 200

1307
00:45:29,670 --> 00:45:28,079
people definitely but it

1308
00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:29,680
i was surprised at how engaged everyone

1309
00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:31,440
was when in the witness panel when it

1310
00:45:34,710 --> 00:45:33,200
went to the q and a's i think everybody

1311
00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:34,720
in there was ready to ask a question or

1312
00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:36,720
two so it's always it's not so

1313
00:45:39,990 --> 00:45:38,240
not always so much the size of the crowd

1314
00:45:42,150 --> 00:45:40,000
but just how invested in it they are so

1315
00:45:44,150 --> 00:45:42,160
it's incredible and it's at the witness

1316
00:45:46,390 --> 00:45:44,160
panel the the huge crowd there it was

1317
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:46,400
all walks of life all ages it's

1318
00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:48,000
incredible how the community's embraced

1319
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:48,720
it

1320
00:45:56,550 --> 00:45:54,640
people work hard i always tell people

1321
00:45:58,069 --> 00:45:56,560
that life in nova scotia is a certain

1322
00:45:59,750 --> 00:45:58,079
particular way and if you don't grind

1323
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:59,760
like a viking you just don't survive out

1324
00:46:03,030 --> 00:46:00,480
here

1325
00:46:05,430 --> 00:46:03,040
so hard work like it is in maine

1326
00:46:07,670 --> 00:46:05,440
uh we we really really value hard work

1327
00:46:09,030 --> 00:46:07,680
and um blood and sweat and tears and

1328
00:46:10,550 --> 00:46:09,040
that sort of showed in the people that

1329
00:46:12,069 --> 00:46:10,560
were in the audience today they had a

1330
00:46:13,990 --> 00:46:12,079
really good level head

1331
00:46:16,069 --> 00:46:14,000
and asked important questions to

1332
00:46:18,950 --> 00:46:16,079
validate their own memory and their own

1333
00:46:21,589 --> 00:46:18,960
place within the community now uh

1334
00:46:24,069 --> 00:46:21,599
so you grew up here your nova scotian

1335
00:46:25,990 --> 00:46:24,079
kind of yeah yeah i sort of lived in

1336
00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:26,000
california for a few years as a kid and

1337
00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:28,480
then i ended up back here yeah yeah um

1338
00:46:33,510 --> 00:46:30,480
when did you first hear about the shag

1339
00:46:35,030 --> 00:46:33,520
harper incident oh i'm sure it was like

1340
00:46:36,790 --> 00:46:35,040
it must have been sightings because i

1341
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:36,800
watched that show in the 90s and chris

1342
00:46:44,470 --> 00:46:42,190
a few pounds lighter

1343
00:46:46,710 --> 00:46:44,480
[Laughter]

1344
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:46,720
i hope he doesn't watch this yeah we're

1345
00:46:50,069 --> 00:46:48,640
all a little bit heavier

1346
00:46:51,589 --> 00:46:50,079
just saying yeah

1347
00:46:53,030 --> 00:46:51,599
that's fair

1348
00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:53,040
pretty funny okay

1349
00:46:55,829 --> 00:46:54,240
well

1350
00:46:57,750 --> 00:46:55,839
yeah no i was just going to say to that

1351
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:57,760
point i've watched all the shag harbor

1352
00:47:02,710 --> 00:46:59,920
documentaries and so through them i've

1353
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:02,720
seen chris don ledger and laurie h you

1354
00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:04,560
know i've seen there's a few from of

1355
00:47:09,349 --> 00:47:07,040
laurie where i think a cbc one that was

1356
00:47:10,870 --> 00:47:09,359
done years ago he must be like 30 years

1357
00:47:12,069 --> 00:47:10,880
old or something this is very cool

1358
00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:12,079
because you can go on youtube and just

1359
00:47:16,230 --> 00:47:13,920
jump from one documentary to another and

1360
00:47:17,829 --> 00:47:16,240
see the effects of 15 years it's true

1361
00:47:19,270 --> 00:47:17,839
and lori is an amazing character because

1362
00:47:20,950 --> 00:47:19,280
he has a huge part in this story and

1363
00:47:22,069 --> 00:47:20,960
he's been really a big ambassador in the

1364
00:47:23,829 --> 00:47:22,079
scene here

1365
00:47:26,390 --> 00:47:23,839
keeping the memory of what happened

1366
00:47:28,950 --> 00:47:26,400
alive and bringing it to people um i

1367
00:47:31,750 --> 00:47:28,960
actually did a documentary in 2012 about

1368
00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:31,760
the situation that never really

1369
00:47:34,710 --> 00:47:33,359
made it there was a kind of a battle

1370
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:34,720
between the producers and we're still

1371
00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:36,880
trying to squeeze that out but just as a

1372
00:47:40,790 --> 00:47:39,359
funny note lori obviously has a really

1373
00:47:42,309 --> 00:47:40,800
strong

1374
00:47:44,470 --> 00:47:42,319
you know nova scotian southern nova

1375
00:47:45,910 --> 00:47:44,480
scotian accent and so in our particular

1376
00:47:48,550 --> 00:47:45,920
documentary we had the rumble of the

1377
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:48,560
truck and laurie driving the truck with

1378
00:47:52,150 --> 00:47:50,160
his arm out with the timmy's and one

1379
00:47:53,670 --> 00:47:52,160
hand on the wheel and he's yelling in

1380
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:53,680
his raspy voice and we actually had to

1381
00:47:57,270 --> 00:47:55,680
put subtitles throughout the entire

1382
00:47:59,430 --> 00:47:57,280
section just so that people could

1383
00:48:01,990 --> 00:47:59,440
understand what he was saying right

1384
00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:02,000
he's just a an amazing charismatic guy

1385
00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:04,400
who never sees this to amaze me yeah

1386
00:48:07,750 --> 00:48:06,400
well great hey thanks so much for

1387
00:48:10,230 --> 00:48:07,760
first of all saying you were listening

1388
00:48:12,470 --> 00:48:10,240
to the show and introducing yourself and

1389
00:48:14,950 --> 00:48:12,480
uh great to have you on so happy you

1390
00:48:17,109 --> 00:48:14,960
made the trip martin i'm a big fan boy

1391
00:48:18,950 --> 00:48:17,119
yeah well thank you and nice to meet you

1392
00:48:20,550 --> 00:48:18,960
nice to meet you as well

1393
00:48:23,589 --> 00:48:20,560
all i want to do is see a moose on the

1394
00:48:27,670 --> 00:48:25,510
um while we wait for the next guest i

1395
00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:27,680
want to present a gift to you martin a

1396
00:48:31,349 --> 00:48:29,520
gift yeah well i had plans to mail it to

1397
00:48:32,790 --> 00:48:31,359
you for christmas but since you're here

1398
00:48:35,349 --> 00:48:32,800
i figured what the hell how many years

1399
00:48:36,549 --> 00:48:35,359
ago um no this was for this year it was

1400
00:48:38,069 --> 00:48:36,559
going to be a christmas present but

1401
00:48:40,950 --> 00:48:38,079
since you're here and it was a christmas

1402
00:48:43,829 --> 00:48:40,960
present what it is it's a pair of socks

1403
00:48:45,670 --> 00:48:43,839
and it has a ufo abducting santa in the

1404
00:48:47,349 --> 00:48:45,680
reindeer

1405
00:48:49,109 --> 00:48:47,359
thanks for coming from maine for that

1406
00:48:51,030 --> 00:48:49,119
well thank you

1407
00:48:52,950 --> 00:48:51,040
i really really love them but i'll never

1408
00:48:55,270 --> 00:48:52,960
wear them no that's fine you hang them

1409
00:48:57,990 --> 00:48:55,280
on your wall just kidding yeah all right

1410
00:49:00,069 --> 00:48:58,000
all right so our next guest is coming up

1411
00:49:02,870 --> 00:49:00,079
uh oh we we're have a little bit of time

1412
00:49:05,670 --> 00:49:02,880
here don't we in about uh eight minutes

1413
00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:05,680
yeah we got peter at at 5 30. i'll tell

1414
00:49:11,750 --> 00:49:08,400
a little story while we wait and this is

1415
00:49:14,390 --> 00:49:11,760
um to talk to the investigative prowess

1416
00:49:16,470 --> 00:49:14,400
of chris styles so i i had on my show

1417
00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:16,480
the nighttime podcast i had covered the

1418
00:49:20,470 --> 00:49:18,960
shag harbor incident and i had laurie

1419
00:49:22,630 --> 00:49:20,480
and chris on the show and that was the

1420
00:49:25,670 --> 00:49:22,640
first time i had met chris uh and i was

1421
00:49:28,390 --> 00:49:25,680
so impressed with just his ability to

1422
00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:28,400
recall dates and names and ufo sightings

1423
00:49:32,309 --> 00:49:30,480
and whatnot he's just incredible

1424
00:49:34,470 --> 00:49:32,319
but then anyway i started covering an

1425
00:49:36,790 --> 00:49:34,480
unrelated story i was helping

1426
00:49:39,510 --> 00:49:36,800
a guy from a province next door in new

1427
00:49:42,230 --> 00:49:39,520
brunswick i was helping him investigate

1428
00:49:44,950 --> 00:49:42,240
the at the time unexplained death of his

1429
00:49:46,549 --> 00:49:44,960
of his grandfather uh in in the course

1430
00:49:49,109 --> 00:49:46,559
of going through basically that long

1431
00:49:51,829 --> 00:49:49,119
story short his grandfather died under

1432
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:51,839
unusual circumstances at a military base

1433
00:49:55,430 --> 00:49:53,520
in the years that followed his family

1434
00:49:56,870 --> 00:49:55,440
have never got an answer as to what had

1435
00:49:59,829 --> 00:49:56,880
happened

1436
00:50:01,829 --> 00:49:59,839
but uh in covering that story we went

1437
00:50:03,349 --> 00:50:01,839
through a lot of documents that because

1438
00:50:05,349 --> 00:50:03,359
his grandmother had tried to sue the

1439
00:50:06,950 --> 00:50:05,359
federal government related to

1440
00:50:08,950 --> 00:50:06,960
an ambulance carrying the grandfather

1441
00:50:11,190 --> 00:50:08,960
that got hit by a train so just it got

1442
00:50:12,710 --> 00:50:11,200
really weird but in all of these reports

1443
00:50:14,309 --> 00:50:12,720
and these these documents from when the

1444
00:50:15,910 --> 00:50:14,319
grandmother was suing the government or

1445
00:50:18,470 --> 00:50:15,920
trying to sue the government it was

1446
00:50:20,069 --> 00:50:18,480
referencing her lawyer chris styles and

1447
00:50:21,510 --> 00:50:20,079
it was even saying chris styles of

1448
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:21,520
dartmouth because whenever there was

1449
00:50:24,630 --> 00:50:23,040
these meetings that would say who was in

1450
00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:24,640
the meetings it was always she's

1451
00:50:28,630 --> 00:50:26,720
represented by chris styles of dartmouth

1452
00:50:30,069 --> 00:50:28,640
and chris styles is a unique name so i

1453
00:50:31,990 --> 00:50:30,079
mentioned to the guy that i was that's

1454
00:50:33,430 --> 00:50:32,000
investigating his granddad's siding i

1455
00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:33,440
was saying it's odd because you know two

1456
00:50:37,190 --> 00:50:35,520
months ago i had a chris styles from

1457
00:50:38,870 --> 00:50:37,200
dartmouth on my show he's a ufo

1458
00:50:40,710 --> 00:50:38,880
investigator and the guy's like you know

1459
00:50:43,109 --> 00:50:40,720
what's weird is i kind of remember my

1460
00:50:45,190 --> 00:50:43,119
uncle talking or my granddad talking

1461
00:50:48,549 --> 00:50:45,200
about a guy that they knew who was a ufo

1462
00:50:50,069 --> 00:50:48,559
investigator so i called chris stiles

1463
00:50:51,670 --> 00:50:50,079
he knew right away what i was talking

1464
00:50:53,589 --> 00:50:51,680
about and i'd asked if he had any

1465
00:50:54,710 --> 00:50:53,599
information on it and basically in the

1466
00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:54,720
course of

1467
00:50:58,870 --> 00:50:57,119
no amount of time chris styles had had

1468
00:51:01,270 --> 00:50:58,880
solved the whole things

1469
00:51:03,670 --> 00:51:01,280
uh he had chris styles had worked with

1470
00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:03,680
the uncle uh and knew where basically

1471
00:51:07,030 --> 00:51:05,280
all the documents that we needed were

1472
00:51:08,630 --> 00:51:07,040
and it was just bizarre to you know to

1473
00:51:10,790 --> 00:51:08,640
have him involved so chris styles isn't

1474
00:51:13,750 --> 00:51:10,800
only a ufo investigator he's also like

1475
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:13,760
an amateur lawyer amateur sleuth bit of

1476
00:51:18,790 --> 00:51:16,480
everything right right

1477
00:51:21,430 --> 00:51:18,800
someone just said we have some questions

1478
00:51:22,950 --> 00:51:21,440
in the chat and i do i i may not be able

1479
00:51:25,829 --> 00:51:22,960
to pay a lot of attention to the

1480
00:51:28,390 --> 00:51:25,839
questions but i will try to answer any

1481
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:28,400
that you have and it's probably best

1482
00:51:33,190 --> 00:51:30,240
when we have a guest up here

1483
00:51:34,470 --> 00:51:33,200
to uh actually ask a question then of

1484
00:51:36,390 --> 00:51:34,480
the guest

1485
00:51:39,030 --> 00:51:36,400
themself if you could

1486
00:51:40,630 --> 00:51:39,040
and um so now we have our next guest

1487
00:51:42,790 --> 00:51:40,640
coming in

1488
00:51:45,030 --> 00:51:42,800
and uh

1489
00:51:46,870 --> 00:51:45,040
last night

1490
00:51:49,109 --> 00:51:46,880
why don't you introduce yeah so our next

1491
00:51:50,630 --> 00:51:49,119
guest was it was another one another one

1492
00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:50,640
of the eyewitnesses he was involved in

1493
00:51:53,990 --> 00:51:52,480
the witness panel we just came from and

1494
00:51:56,150 --> 00:51:54,000
i apologize if i get your last name

1495
00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:56,160
wrong because i only read it from all

1496
00:52:00,069 --> 00:51:57,760
the articles that you're interviewed in

1497
00:52:01,349 --> 00:52:00,079
is peter gorham is the pronunciation so

1498
00:52:03,190 --> 00:52:01,359
peter gorham was involved in the

1499
00:52:05,430 --> 00:52:03,200
eyewitness panel one of the eyewitnesses

1500
00:52:06,870 --> 00:52:05,440
that night so maybe to start peter if

1501
00:52:09,270 --> 00:52:06,880
you want to just tell us about your

1502
00:52:11,030 --> 00:52:09,280
involvement in the shag harbor incident

1503
00:52:13,349 --> 00:52:11,040
and just let us know maybe what you saw

1504
00:52:15,030 --> 00:52:13,359
that night and you know and how

1505
00:52:16,790 --> 00:52:15,040
what you saw fit in fits into the

1506
00:52:17,750 --> 00:52:16,800
broader story

1507
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:17,760
okay

1508
00:52:22,069 --> 00:52:20,400
i was 13 years old i was 13 years old in

1509
00:52:24,230 --> 00:52:22,079
1967

1510
00:52:25,270 --> 00:52:24,240
i lived in a small community called bear

1511
00:52:27,030 --> 00:52:25,280
point

1512
00:52:28,630 --> 00:52:27,040
the population center at the time was

1513
00:52:30,790 --> 00:52:28,640
only about a third of what it is at

1514
00:52:32,710 --> 00:52:30,800
present day

1515
00:52:33,990 --> 00:52:32,720
back in 67 we didn't have paved roads or

1516
00:52:36,870 --> 00:52:34,000
street lights

1517
00:52:37,829 --> 00:52:36,880
uh or very many cars traveling back and

1518
00:52:39,589 --> 00:52:37,839
forth

1519
00:52:41,109 --> 00:52:39,599
uh i was laying in bed

1520
00:52:43,750 --> 00:52:41,119
on the very

1521
00:52:45,910 --> 00:52:43,760
early morning of the fifth of october

1522
00:52:47,670 --> 00:52:45,920
about 40 minutes after laurie wicken's

1523
00:52:49,829 --> 00:52:47,680
experience

1524
00:52:52,549 --> 00:52:49,839
and uh as i was laying awake i noticed

1525
00:52:54,470 --> 00:52:52,559
the uh the house lit up on the bedroom

1526
00:52:56,309 --> 00:52:54,480
side where i was sleeping

1527
00:52:57,589 --> 00:52:56,319
quite extensively

1528
00:53:00,549 --> 00:52:57,599
like a full moon coming out of the

1529
00:53:02,470 --> 00:53:00,559
clouds it just lit right up and uh

1530
00:53:04,710 --> 00:53:02,480
probably a little brighter than that and

1531
00:53:06,549 --> 00:53:04,720
it became stationary over the house for

1532
00:53:08,390 --> 00:53:06,559
roughly a half a minute

1533
00:53:10,069 --> 00:53:08,400
and uh

1534
00:53:11,589 --> 00:53:10,079
i was i slept with the bedroom window

1535
00:53:13,349 --> 00:53:11,599
open so i could hear everything and

1536
00:53:16,390 --> 00:53:13,359
there was no sound whatsoever not a not

1537
00:53:17,750 --> 00:53:16,400
a small one out of anytime

1538
00:53:19,270 --> 00:53:17,760
so i uh

1539
00:53:20,309 --> 00:53:19,280
i was kind of perplexed about this

1540
00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:20,319
because i figured it would be a

1541
00:53:24,069 --> 00:53:21,839
helicopter would be something to attach

1542
00:53:26,549 --> 00:53:24,079
to the light but there wasn't anything

1543
00:53:28,390 --> 00:53:26,559
no street lights no cars no nothing

1544
00:53:29,430 --> 00:53:28,400
and no full moon

1545
00:53:31,270 --> 00:53:29,440
so

1546
00:53:32,950 --> 00:53:31,280
i started to get up and as i did the

1547
00:53:34,790 --> 00:53:32,960
light started to move off

1548
00:53:36,069 --> 00:53:34,800
in the opposite direction that it came

1549
00:53:38,069 --> 00:53:36,079
from

1550
00:53:40,710 --> 00:53:38,079
more down range it was twice as long

1551
00:53:42,549 --> 00:53:40,720
leaving is what it was coming in

1552
00:53:44,549 --> 00:53:42,559
and uh so i figured i would catch the

1553
00:53:47,190 --> 00:53:44,559
lake before it disappeared but at the

1554
00:53:49,190 --> 00:53:47,200
time i was to exit the bedroom to go out

1555
00:53:50,069 --> 00:53:49,200
to the outside to look at the

1556
00:53:51,430 --> 00:53:50,079
light

1557
00:53:53,270 --> 00:53:51,440
as it was leaving

1558
00:53:55,670 --> 00:53:53,280
i noticed i could hear something in the

1559
00:53:57,589 --> 00:53:55,680
in the background coming from the same

1560
00:53:58,549 --> 00:53:57,599
trajectory as the light came from in the

1561
00:54:00,470 --> 00:53:58,559
beginning

1562
00:54:01,910 --> 00:54:00,480
from the northeast and i could hear this

1563
00:54:04,069 --> 00:54:01,920
whistling and tumbling like something

1564
00:54:05,670 --> 00:54:04,079
free falling from the sky all right

1565
00:54:07,750 --> 00:54:05,680
it was

1566
00:54:09,589 --> 00:54:07,760
it only took about 10 seconds 15 seconds

1567
00:54:11,270 --> 00:54:09,599
it was right on top of the house

1568
00:54:12,790 --> 00:54:11,280
so i froze there and the light was

1569
00:54:15,430 --> 00:54:12,800
fading at the same time so it was kind

1570
00:54:16,630 --> 00:54:15,440
of a betwixt in between on whether to go

1571
00:54:18,309 --> 00:54:16,640
outside or

1572
00:54:20,710 --> 00:54:18,319
dive underneath the bed because of the

1573
00:54:23,109 --> 00:54:20,720
fact that the sound was getting so loud

1574
00:54:24,549 --> 00:54:23,119
it was it was all erratic there was no

1575
00:54:26,470 --> 00:54:24,559
system to it it was just tumbling and

1576
00:54:27,910 --> 00:54:26,480
whistling and tumbling and listening

1577
00:54:29,430 --> 00:54:27,920
and i could tell that it was not

1578
00:54:31,030 --> 00:54:29,440
motorized or anything like that it was

1579
00:54:32,549 --> 00:54:31,040
just free falling

1580
00:54:34,069 --> 00:54:32,559
and it did sound like it was going to

1581
00:54:35,910 --> 00:54:34,079
hit the house so

1582
00:54:38,710 --> 00:54:35,920
but it went over the house

1583
00:54:40,630 --> 00:54:38,720
very quickly and i ran outside and when

1584
00:54:42,309 --> 00:54:40,640
i by time i got inside the light it just

1585
00:54:44,309 --> 00:54:42,319
faded off i couldn't tell anymore about

1586
00:54:47,190 --> 00:54:44,319
the light there was no sound it was just

1587
00:54:49,990 --> 00:54:47,200
same as nothing happened

1588
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:50,000
uh apparently

1589
00:54:54,790 --> 00:54:53,119
apparently the next morning

1590
00:54:56,549 --> 00:54:54,800
a lighthouse keeper picked up an object

1591
00:54:58,950 --> 00:54:56,559
on the beach about a mile

1592
00:55:01,670 --> 00:54:58,960
or so off the shore in the same

1593
00:55:04,069 --> 00:55:01,680
trajectory as the noise was coming from

1594
00:55:06,870 --> 00:55:04,079
and the light had gone

1595
00:55:09,510 --> 00:55:06,880
but that wasn't became knowledge until

1596
00:55:11,990 --> 00:55:09,520
almost 30 years after

1597
00:55:13,670 --> 00:55:12,000
so we really didn't know anything uh to

1598
00:55:15,990 --> 00:55:13,680
almost 30 years after that there was an

1599
00:55:19,030 --> 00:55:16,000
object that landed on the beach wow so

1600
00:55:21,910 --> 00:55:19,040
30 years after yeah the guy denied that

1601
00:55:23,430 --> 00:55:21,920
the uh anything had happened and uh

1602
00:55:25,990 --> 00:55:23,440
he was protecting his own interests and

1603
00:55:27,349 --> 00:55:26,000
families interest uh his job so that's

1604
00:55:29,990 --> 00:55:27,359
understandable

1605
00:55:31,910 --> 00:55:30,000
uh but never nevertheless it was almost

1606
00:55:33,670 --> 00:55:31,920
30 years before we could find it that

1607
00:55:35,990 --> 00:55:33,680
was anything

1608
00:55:38,870 --> 00:55:36,000
that connection so you know and i came

1609
00:55:41,349 --> 00:55:38,880
forward in 2013 after 40 odd years

1610
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:41,359
uh with my story in order to

1611
00:55:45,910 --> 00:55:43,680
mainly find out whether what the light

1612
00:55:47,510 --> 00:55:45,920
was and what the object was that the

1613
00:55:50,230 --> 00:55:47,520
landed on the island if i could find

1614
00:55:51,670 --> 00:55:50,240
that that's uh a big chunk of my bucket

1615
00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:51,680
list so

1616
00:55:57,030 --> 00:55:53,920
now did you hear about this incident

1617
00:55:58,950 --> 00:55:57,040
here you know prior to this 30 years uh

1618
00:56:00,950 --> 00:55:58,960
about the object on the on the beach

1619
00:56:02,549 --> 00:56:00,960
yeah i mean not at all

1620
00:56:06,870 --> 00:56:02,559
i didn't hear anything until i started

1621
00:56:08,630 --> 00:56:06,880
uh in the early 2002 or 2003 symposiums

1622
00:56:09,430 --> 00:56:08,640
uh when chris skyles and some of the

1623
00:56:11,990 --> 00:56:09,440
other

1624
00:56:14,150 --> 00:56:12,000
ufologists were coming in and uh

1625
00:56:16,069 --> 00:56:14,160
and having their symposiums and

1626
00:56:18,150 --> 00:56:16,079
everything here and talking about it i

1627
00:56:19,990 --> 00:56:18,160
figured i would come forward and i first

1628
00:56:21,589 --> 00:56:20,000
came there and wanted to gain

1629
00:56:23,109 --> 00:56:21,599
information to see you know

1630
00:56:25,829 --> 00:56:23,119
what they were all about

1631
00:56:27,109 --> 00:56:25,839
and i waited to 2013 to come forward

1632
00:56:30,230 --> 00:56:27,119
because i figured it was that point in

1633
00:56:32,390 --> 00:56:30,240
time that i would be able to

1634
00:56:34,789 --> 00:56:32,400
mainly get my some of my answers that i

1635
00:56:36,150 --> 00:56:34,799
wanted because they're a ufologist and

1636
00:56:37,910 --> 00:56:36,160
he had been

1637
00:56:40,390 --> 00:56:37,920
studying and

1638
00:56:41,990 --> 00:56:40,400
investigating this for almost 30 years

1639
00:56:43,430 --> 00:56:42,000
so i figured it would be the time to

1640
00:56:45,109 --> 00:56:43,440
come forward and

1641
00:56:46,630 --> 00:56:45,119
express my concerns and what i had

1642
00:56:47,990 --> 00:56:46,640
experienced and everything and see if i

1643
00:56:50,630 --> 00:56:48,000
could get to my answers that's all i

1644
00:56:51,910 --> 00:56:50,640
came forward for was to get the answers

1645
00:56:54,150 --> 00:56:51,920
because i mean when you set on something

1646
00:56:55,990 --> 00:56:54,160
for 40 odd years it kind of gets to you

1647
00:56:58,870 --> 00:56:56,000
and you you can't get the answers that

1648
00:57:00,870 --> 00:56:58,880
you want so you know

1649
00:57:02,950 --> 00:57:00,880
yeah uh you still really don't have an

1650
00:57:04,309 --> 00:57:02,960
answer though to you

1651
00:57:05,829 --> 00:57:04,319
not really but

1652
00:57:07,589 --> 00:57:05,839
every year we have a little bit more

1653
00:57:09,510 --> 00:57:07,599
information come in there's more pieces

1654
00:57:10,829 --> 00:57:09,520
to the puzzle whether they be small or

1655
00:57:13,030 --> 00:57:10,839
big that comes

1656
00:57:14,470 --> 00:57:13,040
in and uh

1657
00:57:17,030 --> 00:57:14,480
so i'm hoping that there will be a major

1658
00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:18,789
uh chris probably will be the one that

1659
00:57:21,990 --> 00:57:20,720
will break the story if anybody breaks

1660
00:57:24,549 --> 00:57:22,000
it because he has all the inside

1661
00:57:27,589 --> 00:57:24,559
information and documentation and also

1662
00:57:29,349 --> 00:57:27,599
his contacts um with these symposiums

1663
00:57:30,789 --> 00:57:29,359
that we have uh i would like to make

1664
00:57:33,270 --> 00:57:30,799
clear and i've always made this clear

1665
00:57:35,190 --> 00:57:33,280
that uh i have an open-minded person on

1666
00:57:37,829 --> 00:57:35,200
this and i encourage people to come

1667
00:57:39,670 --> 00:57:37,839
forward with information concerning uh

1668
00:57:41,430 --> 00:57:39,680
that event that

1669
00:57:42,870 --> 00:57:41,440
if they have any knowledge some have

1670
00:57:44,950 --> 00:57:42,880
already

1671
00:57:47,270 --> 00:57:44,960
none that had that would break the story

1672
00:57:49,190 --> 00:57:47,280
wide open or anything like that or

1673
00:57:49,910 --> 00:57:49,200
give me my answers that i don't want to

1674
00:57:52,950 --> 00:57:49,920
get

1675
00:57:55,109 --> 00:57:52,960
but i feel that it will come in time

1676
00:57:57,430 --> 00:57:55,119
now do you feel like this

1677
00:57:59,670 --> 00:57:57,440
the event that happened to you did that

1678
00:58:01,910 --> 00:57:59,680
change your life in any type of way

1679
00:58:03,670 --> 00:58:01,920
your outlook about

1680
00:58:06,150 --> 00:58:03,680
possibilities

1681
00:58:07,510 --> 00:58:06,160
i've always figured over the years that

1682
00:58:09,750 --> 00:58:07,520
this might have been possibilities out

1683
00:58:12,470 --> 00:58:09,760
there but most recently in this last 10

1684
00:58:15,190 --> 00:58:12,480
12 years with the uh

1685
00:58:18,150 --> 00:58:15,200
space exploration and all the drones and

1686
00:58:22,069 --> 00:58:20,390
trips to uh to the other inner planet

1687
00:58:23,349 --> 00:58:22,079
system and everything with with the

1688
00:58:25,109 --> 00:58:23,359
different satellites and everything

1689
00:58:27,430 --> 00:58:25,119
there's more information coming back in

1690
00:58:29,109 --> 00:58:27,440
worldwide

1691
00:58:30,870 --> 00:58:29,119
there's more people involved in this

1692
00:58:32,150 --> 00:58:30,880
phenomenon now

1693
00:58:34,789 --> 00:58:32,160
it's not a

1694
00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:34,799
open and closed in situation people have

1695
00:58:37,670 --> 00:58:36,720
been increasingly interested in the

1696
00:58:40,309 --> 00:58:37,680
space

1697
00:58:42,309 --> 00:58:40,319
and and the planets and and uh you know

1698
00:58:46,150 --> 00:58:42,319
uh maybe extraterrestrial life and so on

1699
00:58:47,589 --> 00:58:46,160
so forth i don't know for sure but uh

1700
00:58:49,829 --> 00:58:47,599
there's more information coming in all

1701
00:58:52,309 --> 00:58:49,839
the time so uh more people i think

1702
00:58:53,620 --> 00:58:52,319
believe i have open mind on this and

1703
00:58:54,710 --> 00:58:53,630
that's why

1704
00:58:56,870 --> 00:58:54,720
[Music]

1705
00:58:58,870 --> 00:58:56,880
wow

1706
00:59:01,430 --> 00:58:58,880
doing live show

1707
00:59:04,230 --> 00:59:01,440
no editing here well yeah

1708
00:59:07,190 --> 00:59:04,240
yeah but that's my perspective on it um

1709
00:59:08,710 --> 00:59:07,200
i'm working with this bunch and uh we we

1710
00:59:10,789 --> 00:59:08,720
seem to be gaining ground quite a bit

1711
00:59:12,630 --> 00:59:10,799
especially this year here uh trying to

1712
00:59:14,150 --> 00:59:12,640
get the information out and uh like i

1713
00:59:16,150 --> 00:59:14,160
say we would like to

1714
00:59:18,309 --> 00:59:16,160
encourage people to come forward uh to

1715
00:59:19,430 --> 00:59:18,319
chris especially because he and graham

1716
00:59:21,030 --> 00:59:19,440
uh to

1717
00:59:23,270 --> 00:59:21,040
express their uh

1718
00:59:26,710 --> 00:59:23,280
knowledge and that they had experiences

1719
00:59:30,870 --> 00:59:29,670
is uh is graham here

1720
00:59:34,789 --> 00:59:30,880
he's gone

1721
00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:34,799
oh okay all right um if he comes back um

1722
00:59:39,829 --> 00:59:37,200
we'd like to talk to him a little bit

1723
00:59:41,910 --> 00:59:39,839
uh did you have a question

1724
00:59:43,190 --> 00:59:41,920
could you just talk about how how this

1725
00:59:46,069 --> 00:59:43,200
because you've been involved in the

1726
00:59:47,589 --> 00:59:46,079
last six or seven you know ufo festivals

1727
00:59:49,510 --> 00:59:47,599
here how does this year with it being

1728
00:59:50,870 --> 00:59:49,520
the 50th compared to the prior years

1729
00:59:52,870 --> 00:59:50,880
that you've been involved in

1730
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:52,880
well this is a major jump this year uh

1731
00:59:57,270 --> 00:59:54,960
we planned this a little bit more and we

1732
00:59:58,630 --> 00:59:57,280
got more people involved uh my work put

1733
01:00:00,390 --> 00:59:58,640
a neck out on the line on this because

1734
01:00:02,150 --> 01:00:00,400
we're limited on the budget that we have

1735
01:00:03,829 --> 01:00:02,160
and we're basically it looks like it's

1736
01:00:06,230 --> 01:00:03,839
going to be very successful

1737
01:00:08,870 --> 01:00:06,240
we've had a lot of turnout and we're

1738
01:00:10,789 --> 01:00:08,880
only halfway through right now

1739
01:00:13,589 --> 01:00:10,799
we have another we have more activity

1740
01:00:14,549 --> 01:00:13,599
coming on sunday more

1741
01:00:16,309 --> 01:00:14,559
events

1742
01:00:17,670 --> 01:00:16,319
so we'll assess it at the end of the

1743
01:00:19,589 --> 01:00:17,680
season and

1744
01:00:21,510 --> 01:00:19,599
plan for next year earlier than we did

1745
01:00:23,109 --> 01:00:21,520
this year

1746
01:00:25,270 --> 01:00:23,119
we got more members now a few more

1747
01:00:26,789 --> 01:00:25,280
members that's

1748
01:00:28,710 --> 01:00:26,799
and people that's helping us right now

1749
01:00:31,910 --> 01:00:28,720
but we could use more help volunteer

1750
01:00:33,430 --> 01:00:31,920
work we're in a limited uh

1751
01:00:36,069 --> 01:00:33,440
amount of people here in this area

1752
01:00:37,510 --> 01:00:36,079
limited amount of the population so

1753
01:00:38,789 --> 01:00:37,520
halifax or something where we could

1754
01:00:40,789 --> 01:00:38,799
probably get two or three hundred people

1755
01:00:43,349 --> 01:00:40,799
if we wanted to we just can't get that

1756
01:00:45,030 --> 01:00:43,359
many hair but that's

1757
01:00:46,230 --> 01:00:45,040
i think we've we've made some big games

1758
01:00:47,589 --> 01:00:46,240
this year

1759
01:00:48,630 --> 01:00:47,599
we'll we'll assess it at the end of the

1760
01:00:51,190 --> 01:00:48,640
season

1761
01:00:52,950 --> 01:00:51,200
i know our uh count on on the books is

1762
01:00:54,950 --> 01:00:52,960
almost doubled

1763
01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:54,960
well that's good 100

1764
01:00:58,309 --> 01:00:57,050
but lori will probably say that it's now

1765
01:00:59,829 --> 01:00:58,319
[Music]

1766
01:01:00,789 --> 01:00:59,839
it's probably a little bit the same

1767
01:01:02,549 --> 01:01:00,799
power but

1768
01:01:04,549 --> 01:01:02,559
i think it's quite a bit

1769
01:01:06,230 --> 01:01:04,559
now what about um the other sightings

1770
01:01:08,950 --> 01:01:06,240
that people have here have you been

1771
01:01:11,030 --> 01:01:08,960
paying attention to that um

1772
01:01:13,750 --> 01:01:11,040
other than the event that happened in 67

1773
01:01:15,670 --> 01:01:13,760
um no not really because uh

1774
01:01:17,430 --> 01:01:15,680
it centers around the 67 event but i

1775
01:01:19,589 --> 01:01:17,440
know this i've heard rumors that there's

1776
01:01:21,750 --> 01:01:19,599
been things other things just a few

1777
01:01:23,190 --> 01:01:21,760
years later or earlier than that or

1778
01:01:25,270 --> 01:01:23,200
around that time

1779
01:01:28,150 --> 01:01:25,280
but there's been no substantial

1780
01:01:30,470 --> 01:01:28,160
evidence or follow-up on that so i can't

1781
01:01:33,270 --> 01:01:30,480
really express my concern on that

1782
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:33,280
has this has this experience had you

1783
01:01:39,910 --> 01:01:37,200
look into ufos in general

1784
01:01:40,789 --> 01:01:39,920
no there's enough media stuff around and

1785
01:01:45,349 --> 01:01:40,799
uh

1786
01:01:46,870 --> 01:01:45,359
that i don't really have to go looking

1787
01:01:48,630 --> 01:01:46,880
for it i mean

1788
01:01:50,309 --> 01:01:48,640
you can pick up a paper or any day and

1789
01:01:52,630 --> 01:01:50,319
see that they found a new planet system

1790
01:01:54,789 --> 01:01:52,640
or something going on and then we got a

1791
01:01:56,950 --> 01:01:54,799
ellen musk down south of the border

1792
01:01:59,190 --> 01:01:56,960
there he's trying to develop space

1793
01:02:02,309 --> 01:01:59,200
travel too and

1794
01:02:06,230 --> 01:02:05,109
on people's minds even back in 67 some

1795
01:02:08,069 --> 01:02:06,240
to some degree but it's been

1796
01:02:09,910 --> 01:02:08,079
increasingly so as the years progressed

1797
01:02:11,109 --> 01:02:09,920
and the technology progresses

1798
01:02:12,390 --> 01:02:11,119
um

1799
01:02:15,190 --> 01:02:12,400
and this uh

1800
01:02:16,710 --> 01:02:15,200
it spans like i say 50 years and is

1801
01:02:19,670 --> 01:02:16,720
we have people from all the world come

1802
01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:19,680
in this museum in all ages really yeah

1803
01:02:24,470 --> 01:02:22,000
we've had even kids come in uh doing

1804
01:02:25,750 --> 01:02:24,480
science projects and uh so you know it's

1805
01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:25,760
and then we have people coming in here

1806
01:02:30,069 --> 01:02:27,920
just

1807
01:02:32,710 --> 01:02:30,079
been in the military probably 80 90

1808
01:02:36,069 --> 01:02:32,720
years old that had experiences so it

1809
01:02:38,230 --> 01:02:36,079
covers the whole gamut of

1810
01:02:39,589 --> 01:02:38,240
age groups generations and stuff it

1811
01:02:40,870 --> 01:02:39,599
spans the whole way there's no one

1812
01:02:42,630 --> 01:02:40,880
generation

1813
01:02:44,069 --> 01:02:42,640
story it spans the whole thing it's

1814
01:02:45,910 --> 01:02:44,079
still ongoing

1815
01:02:47,270 --> 01:02:45,920
now do you have any people coming here

1816
01:02:49,589 --> 01:02:47,280
specifically

1817
01:02:51,589 --> 01:02:49,599
to do any research on shag harbors as

1818
01:02:53,030 --> 01:02:51,599
far as you know uh not that i know chris

1819
01:02:54,950 --> 01:02:53,040
would have more insight on that because

1820
01:02:57,510 --> 01:02:54,960
he's a contact person following up on

1821
01:02:59,589 --> 01:02:57,520
this story any any major uh contact safe

1822
01:03:01,990 --> 01:02:59,599
to move on or

1823
01:03:03,270 --> 01:03:02,000
i expect after this this uh symposium

1824
01:03:04,230 --> 01:03:03,280
there may be

1825
01:03:08,950 --> 01:03:04,240
yeah

1826
01:03:10,789 --> 01:03:08,960
handling that we get some uh calls and

1827
01:03:12,630 --> 01:03:10,799
stuff uh because of the events and stuff

1828
01:03:14,390 --> 01:03:12,640
that's going on here uh

1829
01:03:16,470 --> 01:03:14,400
but like again i say this this is more

1830
01:03:18,470 --> 01:03:16,480
exposure with the multimedia and the

1831
01:03:20,069 --> 01:03:18,480
social media and everything that is

1832
01:03:22,870 --> 01:03:20,079
probably gonna we're gonna see about an

1833
01:03:24,789 --> 01:03:22,880
increase i'm sure that yeah

1834
01:03:26,309 --> 01:03:24,799
excellent well thank you so much it's

1835
01:03:27,910 --> 01:03:26,319
been a real pleasure

1836
01:03:37,029 --> 01:03:27,920
all right thanks

1837
01:03:41,670 --> 01:03:39,829
all right so our next guest will be

1838
01:03:44,390 --> 01:03:41,680
along hopefully he'll be alone it'll be

1839
01:03:46,870 --> 01:03:44,400
another 10 minutes time yeah

1840
01:03:50,710 --> 01:03:46,880
paul he's right there yeah thank you

1841
01:03:52,309 --> 01:03:50,720
uh paul kimball now paul was on my show

1842
01:03:54,470 --> 01:03:52,319
before

1843
01:03:57,190 --> 01:03:54,480
yeah this is a long time ago yeah but i

1844
01:03:59,029 --> 01:03:57,200
mean it was so memorable he doesn't even

1845
01:04:01,029 --> 01:03:59,039
remember i don't think

1846
01:04:01,910 --> 01:04:01,039
i remember listening to that one there

1847
01:04:04,390 --> 01:04:01,920
you go

1848
01:04:06,789 --> 01:04:04,400
it happened oh you remember huh

1849
01:04:09,510 --> 01:04:06,799
all right

1850
01:04:11,349 --> 01:04:09,520
um so paul be coming right along yep

1851
01:04:13,430 --> 01:04:11,359
joining us

1852
01:04:15,589 --> 01:04:13,440
i'm just looking up to see

1853
01:04:16,710 --> 01:04:15,599
when i had him on

1854
01:04:18,470 --> 01:04:16,720
have a seat

1855
01:04:22,309 --> 01:04:18,480
right here paul

1856
01:04:27,430 --> 01:04:23,510
oh my

1857
01:04:29,430 --> 01:04:27,440
all my preparation um didn't uh didn't

1858
01:04:32,789 --> 01:04:29,440
help me forget my microphone but luckily

1859
01:04:35,270 --> 01:04:32,799
we're coming oh i remember you now paul

1860
01:04:36,230 --> 01:04:35,280
he's googling when you're on the show

1861
01:04:38,950 --> 01:04:36,240
yeah

1862
01:04:40,309 --> 01:04:38,960
uh yours i feel special

1863
01:04:41,670 --> 01:04:40,319
i know i felt special when you didn't

1864
01:04:43,910 --> 01:04:41,680
remember me either

1865
01:04:46,470 --> 01:04:43,920
that's good when was i on tit for tat as

1866
01:04:49,270 --> 01:04:46,480
they say um that was uh

1867
01:04:50,630 --> 01:04:49,280
you were episode 188 so almost 100

1868
01:04:52,390 --> 01:04:50,640
episodes ago

1869
01:04:55,589 --> 01:04:52,400
and let me just uh

1870
01:04:58,630 --> 01:04:55,599
pull you up for a date february 4th

1871
01:05:00,230 --> 01:04:58,640
uh 2016. it wasn't that long ago you

1872
01:05:01,589 --> 01:05:00,240
used a really good photo i like that

1873
01:05:04,150 --> 01:05:01,599
that's nice yeah i look good there

1874
01:05:07,029 --> 01:05:04,160
that's right it's a hero pose all right

1875
01:05:09,750 --> 01:05:07,039
so hey uh welcome to the show and uh

1876
01:05:10,710 --> 01:05:09,760
okay yeah we can see you that's good um

1877
01:05:12,789 --> 01:05:10,720
so

1878
01:05:15,589 --> 01:05:12,799
you're you have if i remember right you

1879
01:05:16,710 --> 01:05:15,599
have more of a skeptical mind on a lot

1880
01:05:17,910 --> 01:05:16,720
of things

1881
01:05:19,829 --> 01:05:17,920
what do you think about this whole

1882
01:05:21,510 --> 01:05:19,839
incident in particular love the shag

1883
01:05:25,109 --> 01:05:21,520
harbor incident um

1884
01:05:26,390 --> 01:05:25,119
somebody asked me about a week ago

1885
01:05:28,549 --> 01:05:26,400
because i had written something

1886
01:05:29,589 --> 01:05:28,559
revisiting the top 10 ufo cases film

1887
01:05:32,470 --> 01:05:29,599
that i'd done

1888
01:05:33,910 --> 01:05:32,480
10 years ago actually and said well

1889
01:05:35,670 --> 01:05:33,920
which of these cases do you think are

1890
01:05:37,670 --> 01:05:35,680
still valid which of these cases do you

1891
01:05:39,829 --> 01:05:37,680
have less confidence in now

1892
01:05:41,109 --> 01:05:39,839
and i said well look this one i think i

1893
01:05:42,470 --> 01:05:41,119
always thought was a hoax but it was

1894
01:05:44,230 --> 01:05:42,480
voted in this one i think has been

1895
01:05:45,190 --> 01:05:44,240
explained somebody took a crack at this

1896
01:05:48,630 --> 01:05:45,200
one

1897
01:05:50,870 --> 01:05:48,640
stick that i think still remains

1898
01:05:53,190 --> 01:05:50,880
unexplained it has

1899
01:05:54,630 --> 01:05:53,200
everything that a good investigator and

1900
01:05:56,390 --> 01:05:54,640
i don't necessarily mean a ufo

1901
01:05:58,390 --> 01:05:56,400
investigator i mean a good police

1902
01:05:59,750 --> 01:05:58,400
officer a good lawyer or a good

1903
01:06:01,109 --> 01:05:59,760
historian who

1904
01:06:03,190 --> 01:06:01,119
would be examining what they would be

1905
01:06:05,750 --> 01:06:03,200
examining would love to have this kind

1906
01:06:06,710 --> 01:06:05,760
of stuff multiple witnesses seeing

1907
01:06:07,670 --> 01:06:06,720
things

1908
01:06:09,510 --> 01:06:07,680
uh

1909
01:06:11,109 --> 01:06:09,520
in different places independently of

1910
01:06:14,549 --> 01:06:11,119
each other and then sort of their

1911
01:06:16,230 --> 01:06:14,559
stories don't completely match 100

1912
01:06:18,390 --> 01:06:16,240
because you never want that that seems

1913
01:06:19,910 --> 01:06:18,400
that that's always a sign of a cook-up

1914
01:06:21,670 --> 01:06:19,920
but their stories match in all the

1915
01:06:24,470 --> 01:06:21,680
important respects

1916
01:06:26,230 --> 01:06:24,480
and then you have official undocumented

1917
01:06:27,829 --> 01:06:26,240
government involvement now maybe it's a

1918
01:06:29,270 --> 01:06:27,839
lot more than

1919
01:06:30,950 --> 01:06:29,280
we think it is in the whole shelburne

1920
01:06:32,150 --> 01:06:30,960
thing that chris talks about but if you

1921
01:06:33,750 --> 01:06:32,160
just look at the shag harbor story

1922
01:06:36,150 --> 01:06:33,760
there's no question there were rcmp

1923
01:06:39,750 --> 01:06:36,160
officers there the military took a look

1924
01:06:41,670 --> 01:06:39,760
at it this is a it's a really good ufo

1925
01:06:43,430 --> 01:06:41,680
case and i was on

1926
01:06:45,589 --> 01:06:43,440
a local radio show in halifax the other

1927
01:06:47,589 --> 01:06:45,599
day and they said well case you talk

1928
01:06:49,910 --> 01:06:47,599
about it like it's the law and it's

1929
01:06:52,150 --> 01:06:49,920
evidence i said this is evidence

1930
01:06:53,589 --> 01:06:52,160
witnesses are evidence them telling

1931
01:06:56,150 --> 01:06:53,599
their stories do i think it's space

1932
01:06:58,710 --> 01:06:56,160
aliens from zeta reticuli no do i think

1933
01:07:00,789 --> 01:06:58,720
it's possible yes it's unexplained it's

1934
01:07:03,510 --> 01:07:00,799
unknown but it's still a really good

1935
01:07:05,750 --> 01:07:03,520
case and i wish i was on an american

1936
01:07:07,190 --> 01:07:05,760
show and i said i wish you guys i wish

1937
01:07:08,230 --> 01:07:07,200
folks would just stop talking about

1938
01:07:14,630 --> 01:07:08,240
roswell

1939
01:07:16,870 --> 01:07:14,640
have a case from 1967 and actually you

1940
01:07:18,549 --> 01:07:16,880
know what it's it's not national pride

1941
01:07:20,710 --> 01:07:18,559
or rah-rah canada or anything i just

1942
01:07:22,150 --> 01:07:20,720
think it's a better evidential case and

1943
01:07:24,309 --> 01:07:22,160
unlike roswell where a lot of the

1944
01:07:27,270 --> 01:07:24,319
witnesses have either recanted or been

1945
01:07:30,390 --> 01:07:27,280
shown to be hoaxers or you know the case

1946
01:07:32,789 --> 01:07:30,400
is slowly collapsed i think shag harbor

1947
01:07:34,470 --> 01:07:32,799
just just keeps getting stronger

1948
01:07:37,029 --> 01:07:34,480
and the more you look into it the

1949
01:07:38,069 --> 01:07:37,039
stronger it gets so i i think it's one

1950
01:07:40,630 --> 01:07:38,079
of the

1951
01:07:42,870 --> 01:07:40,640
you know best ufo cases on record not

1952
01:07:44,870 --> 01:07:42,880
just in canada but around the world and

1953
01:07:46,870 --> 01:07:44,880
it's nice to see a really good group of

1954
01:07:48,309 --> 01:07:46,880
people come out and celebrate the 50th

1955
01:07:51,190 --> 01:07:48,319
anniversary of the case

1956
01:07:54,630 --> 01:07:52,710
i'm just going to ask we'll get into

1957
01:07:57,109 --> 01:07:54,640
your personal background a bit i

1958
01:07:58,549 --> 01:07:57,119
understand you involved in politics as

1959
01:08:00,710 --> 01:07:58,559
well and i just wonder how your

1960
01:08:02,230 --> 01:08:00,720
association with the ufo phenomenon in

1961
01:08:03,670 --> 01:08:02,240
shag harbor how that affects your

1962
01:08:06,309 --> 01:08:03,680
professional career as a you know a

1963
01:08:10,150 --> 01:08:08,390
i was a politician for 15 minutes and a

1964
01:08:11,750 --> 01:08:10,160
cup of coffee i'm unlike the guy who

1965
01:08:13,990 --> 01:08:11,760
gets called up in september in major

1966
01:08:15,910 --> 01:08:14,000
league baseball and you know plays eight

1967
01:08:18,390 --> 01:08:15,920
games and hits 170 and you never hear

1968
01:08:21,269 --> 01:08:18,400
from again i ran in the last provincial

1969
01:08:23,030 --> 01:08:21,279
election i finished second uh in writing

1970
01:08:25,829 --> 01:08:23,040
where my party hadn't finished

1971
01:08:29,430 --> 01:08:25,839
second in 15 years they've been in third

1972
01:08:30,870 --> 01:08:29,440
place for years so you know i did better

1973
01:08:32,229 --> 01:08:30,880
somebody a guy named rich reynolds in

1974
01:08:34,550 --> 01:08:32,239
the united states wrote a column paul

1975
01:08:36,229 --> 01:08:34,560
kimball lost his election

1976
01:08:37,189 --> 01:08:36,239
because of his ufo

1977
01:08:39,430 --> 01:08:37,199
interests

1978
01:08:42,149 --> 01:08:39,440
no paul kimball lost the election

1979
01:08:43,749 --> 01:08:42,159
because my party lost the election and i

1980
01:08:46,550 --> 01:08:43,759
was running in a riding that's been a

1981
01:08:48,149 --> 01:08:46,560
liberal party riding for uh 15 years i

1982
01:08:49,749 --> 01:08:48,159
did better than any candidate for my

1983
01:08:51,749 --> 01:08:49,759
party has done in 15 years i did pretty

1984
01:08:53,269 --> 01:08:51,759
good the party's happy with me and my

1985
01:08:56,070 --> 01:08:53,279
showing but i didn't lose because of

1986
01:08:57,829 --> 01:08:56,080
ufos nobody wanted to talk to me about

1987
01:08:59,510 --> 01:08:57,839
ufos when i'd knock on the door it'd be

1988
01:09:01,829 --> 01:08:59,520
like healthcare or whatever

1989
01:09:03,590 --> 01:09:01,839
anybody who was aware of my interest in

1990
01:09:05,349 --> 01:09:03,600
ufos or my

1991
01:09:07,189 --> 01:09:05,359
ghost hunting tv shows or any of that

1992
01:09:08,390 --> 01:09:07,199
sort of stuff i thought it was really

1993
01:09:09,189 --> 01:09:08,400
really cool

1994
01:09:11,510 --> 01:09:09,199
so

1995
01:09:14,309 --> 01:09:11,520
i when the party asked me to run

1996
01:09:16,309 --> 01:09:14,319
i said look you you understand like i

1997
01:09:18,229 --> 01:09:16,319
just think like a politician this could

1998
01:09:19,990 --> 01:09:18,239
be maybe a problem michael stan

1999
01:09:21,749 --> 01:09:20,000
friedman's my uncle he's off to talk to

2000
01:09:24,070 --> 01:09:21,759
about the laughter curtain yeah and i

2001
01:09:26,390 --> 01:09:24,080
said look laughter curtain are you sure

2002
01:09:28,470 --> 01:09:26,400
you're okay with this and they said

2003
01:09:30,070 --> 01:09:28,480
yeah not only were okay like this is

2004
01:09:31,269 --> 01:09:30,080
really cool can we go out and you know

2005
01:09:32,870 --> 01:09:31,279
have a beer with you sometime we just

2006
01:09:34,550 --> 01:09:32,880
want to talk to you about ufos and

2007
01:09:36,470 --> 01:09:34,560
ghosts and stuff like that i mean chris

2008
01:09:39,030 --> 01:09:36,480
dontremo who's the local member of the

2009
01:09:41,189 --> 01:09:39,040
legislative assembly here in this riding

2010
01:09:43,430 --> 01:09:41,199
was at the shag harbor

2011
01:09:45,749 --> 01:09:43,440
lectures this morning so a member of my

2012
01:09:47,349 --> 01:09:45,759
party popeye said hello did the

2013
01:09:48,870 --> 01:09:47,359
constituency thing but stuck around and

2014
01:09:51,749 --> 01:09:48,880
listened to some of the lectures there

2015
01:09:54,070 --> 01:09:51,759
there is no laughter curtain uh it's not

2016
01:09:56,310 --> 01:09:54,080
a detriment to your political career

2017
01:09:58,070 --> 01:09:56,320
people don't base their voting choices

2018
01:10:00,790 --> 01:09:58,080
on whether or not you have an interest

2019
01:10:02,709 --> 01:10:00,800
in the paranormal or something like that

2020
01:10:05,110 --> 01:10:02,719
from from an academic point of view like

2021
01:10:07,430 --> 01:10:05,120
i do from a a cultural point of view a

2022
01:10:09,590 --> 01:10:07,440
folklore point of view now if i was

2023
01:10:11,510 --> 01:10:09,600
dressing up as a space alien every time

2024
01:10:13,030 --> 01:10:11,520
i went someplace like there's a space

2025
01:10:14,550 --> 01:10:13,040
alien yeah we have one somewhere back

2026
01:10:17,030 --> 01:10:14,560
here and you know if i said something

2027
01:10:18,950 --> 01:10:17,040
like i can prove that there's 84 species

2028
01:10:20,470 --> 01:10:18,960
of of space aliens different species

2029
01:10:22,790 --> 01:10:20,480
visiting earth and abducting humans and

2030
01:10:24,950 --> 01:10:22,800
cows and all that stuff that that might

2031
01:10:26,630 --> 01:10:24,960
have been a different story but if you

2032
01:10:29,030 --> 01:10:26,640
if you take a sensible interest in the

2033
01:10:31,590 --> 01:10:29,040
subject and you find it interesting uh

2034
01:10:33,189 --> 01:10:31,600
particularly in nova scotia where so

2035
01:10:34,790 --> 01:10:33,199
much and it's like maine in the united

2036
01:10:36,470 --> 01:10:34,800
states and some of those areas where so

2037
01:10:38,470 --> 01:10:36,480
much of our history is based on things

2038
01:10:41,189 --> 01:10:38,480
like ghosts and forerunners and will of

2039
01:10:43,750 --> 01:10:41,199
the wisps and it's built into who we are

2040
01:10:45,510 --> 01:10:43,760
our storytelling dna so there's a very

2041
01:10:47,510 --> 01:10:45,520
famous folklorist helen creighton who

2042
01:10:49,590 --> 01:10:47,520
wrote a book called blue knows ghosts

2043
01:10:51,990 --> 01:10:49,600
and i never get any guff for being you

2044
01:10:53,990 --> 01:10:52,000
know run doing a ghost investigating tv

2045
01:10:55,270 --> 01:10:54,000
show doesn't cause me a problem in fact

2046
01:10:57,270 --> 01:10:55,280
people say will you come look at our

2047
01:10:59,030 --> 01:10:57,280
house we come look at our museum we come

2048
01:11:01,350 --> 01:10:59,040
here we come here because it's part of

2049
01:11:03,590 --> 01:11:01,360
who we are so no not not a problem at

2050
01:11:05,270 --> 01:11:03,600
all in my brief call up to the political

2051
01:11:07,590 --> 01:11:05,280
world and now i'm happily back to being

2052
01:11:09,510 --> 01:11:07,600
a film producer and director so

2053
01:11:11,510 --> 01:11:09,520
and do you have anything in the what

2054
01:11:13,030 --> 01:11:11,520
type of films

2055
01:11:15,510 --> 01:11:13,040
do you do

2056
01:11:17,430 --> 01:11:15,520
i i began my career doing documentary

2057
01:11:18,950 --> 01:11:17,440
television uh

2058
01:11:20,709 --> 01:11:18,960
documentaries for television and tv

2059
01:11:22,870 --> 01:11:20,719
series on a wide range of subjects so i

2060
01:11:25,270 --> 01:11:22,880
did a lot of ufo related films

2061
01:11:26,709 --> 01:11:25,280
no question about that but i did two

2062
01:11:28,630 --> 01:11:26,719
seasons of a series about classical

2063
01:11:30,950 --> 01:11:28,640
music in canada i did documentaries

2064
01:11:33,430 --> 01:11:30,960
about pro wrestling and blues music and

2065
01:11:35,750 --> 01:11:33,440
a wide panoply of stuff and then i moved

2066
01:11:37,910 --> 01:11:35,760
into making feature films so i made four

2067
01:11:40,870 --> 01:11:37,920
feature films uh three that i'll admit

2068
01:11:42,229 --> 01:11:40,880
to one that no one will ever see and

2069
01:11:43,669 --> 01:11:42,239
now i sort of i haven't given up on

2070
01:11:46,229 --> 01:11:43,679
feature films but i've moved back to

2071
01:11:47,669 --> 01:11:46,239
television um so we're doing a show we

2072
01:11:49,750 --> 01:11:47,679
have three television series that we're

2073
01:11:51,270 --> 01:11:49,760
filming over the next six months so for

2074
01:11:53,270 --> 01:11:51,280
anyone who thinks i just do ufos or

2075
01:11:55,270 --> 01:11:53,280
whatever one is on ghost investigating

2076
01:11:57,669 --> 01:11:55,280
and i'm one of the hosts one is on

2077
01:11:59,350 --> 01:11:57,679
stand-up comedy and the other one is on

2078
01:12:01,110 --> 01:11:59,360
craft breweries and cideries and

2079
01:12:02,790 --> 01:12:01,120
distilleries in nova scotia so you know

2080
01:12:04,709 --> 01:12:02,800
it's a wide range of that's what any

2081
01:12:06,630 --> 01:12:04,719
producer director does the great thing

2082
01:12:08,470 --> 01:12:06,640
for me is i get i'm interested in all

2083
01:12:10,950 --> 01:12:08,480
three of those things i get a chance to

2084
01:12:12,550 --> 01:12:10,960
do things i'm interested in so somebody

2085
01:12:14,709 --> 01:12:12,560
once said oh you do the ufo thing or the

2086
01:12:16,229 --> 01:12:14,719
ghost thing for money right no i'm i'm

2087
01:12:18,149 --> 01:12:16,239
glad i get paid

2088
01:12:19,830 --> 01:12:18,159
and paid well to do it but there's a lot

2089
01:12:21,430 --> 01:12:19,840
of things i won't do for money the only

2090
01:12:23,189 --> 01:12:21,440
way i'll work on a project is if i'm

2091
01:12:25,590 --> 01:12:23,199
actually interested in the subject

2092
01:12:27,910 --> 01:12:25,600
matter and i find ufos and ghosts and

2093
01:12:30,630 --> 01:12:27,920
all this paranormal stuff interesting

2094
01:12:31,990 --> 01:12:30,640
because the possibilities of what it

2095
01:12:33,910 --> 01:12:32,000
might be

2096
01:12:35,350 --> 01:12:33,920
represents a really fascinating

2097
01:12:37,430 --> 01:12:35,360
conversation that human beings can have

2098
01:12:39,350 --> 01:12:37,440
with each other about our own sort of

2099
01:12:40,790 --> 01:12:39,360
existence our place in the universe or

2100
01:12:42,550 --> 01:12:40,800
with ghosts you know our ext what

2101
01:12:44,390 --> 01:12:42,560
happens to us after we die that kind of

2102
01:12:46,070 --> 01:12:44,400
existential question these are big

2103
01:12:48,310 --> 01:12:46,080
ticket items that we think about and

2104
01:12:50,470 --> 01:12:48,320
talk about all the time i just frame it

2105
01:12:51,910 --> 01:12:50,480
within the context of what we call the

2106
01:12:52,709 --> 01:12:51,920
paranormal

2107
01:12:56,070 --> 01:12:52,719
right

2108
01:12:58,870 --> 01:12:56,080
now um can anyone find any of your ufo

2109
01:13:01,590 --> 01:12:58,880
shows anywhere online yeah they're all

2110
01:13:03,350 --> 01:13:01,600
um i think freely available now we have

2111
01:13:05,510 --> 01:13:03,360
us distributors and i think if you just

2112
01:13:07,830 --> 01:13:05,520
go to youtube and type in best evidence

2113
01:13:10,470 --> 01:13:07,840
top ufo sightings oh i know that one uh

2114
01:13:12,950 --> 01:13:10,480
that was yours yep stan friedman is real

2115
01:13:15,750 --> 01:13:12,960
is available online i know that that one

2116
01:13:16,950 --> 01:13:15,760
hit the mic there aztec 1948 they're all

2117
01:13:18,709 --> 01:13:16,960
they're all there so you can find them

2118
01:13:20,229 --> 01:13:18,719
all up online

2119
01:13:22,390 --> 01:13:20,239
okay great

2120
01:13:24,950 --> 01:13:22,400
uh

2121
01:13:25,910 --> 01:13:24,960
yeah sounds great and um i know i had

2122
01:13:28,310 --> 01:13:25,920
another question you have another

2123
01:13:30,550 --> 01:13:28,320
question for him i did have

2124
01:13:32,229 --> 01:13:30,560
anything in the works for you related to

2125
01:13:33,510 --> 01:13:32,239
the ufo phenomenon your documentaries

2126
01:13:36,870 --> 01:13:33,520
are great

2127
01:13:39,350 --> 01:13:36,880
uh thanks the um i'm mostly focused when

2128
01:13:42,149 --> 01:13:39,360
it comes to the paranormal stuff on our

2129
01:13:43,750 --> 01:13:42,159
ghost investigating tv series personally

2130
01:13:45,830 --> 01:13:43,760
i find the ghost investigating stuff

2131
01:13:47,430 --> 01:13:45,840
more interesting for one thing i can go

2132
01:13:50,149 --> 01:13:47,440
to a haunted house or a haunted museum

2133
01:13:51,590 --> 01:13:50,159
or whatever and see if we can have the

2134
01:13:53,270 --> 01:13:51,600
same sort of experience that other

2135
01:13:55,430 --> 01:13:53,280
people have described

2136
01:13:58,070 --> 01:13:55,440
i can go to roswell or i can come to

2137
01:13:59,669 --> 01:13:58,080
shag harbor but as some of the panelists

2138
01:14:01,669 --> 01:13:59,679
were saying today we saw this 50 years

2139
01:14:02,630 --> 01:14:01,679
ago and we wanted we're waiting to see

2140
01:14:03,510 --> 01:14:02,640
it again

2141
01:14:05,750 --> 01:14:03,520
so

2142
01:14:07,830 --> 01:14:05,760
the replication factor is a lot harder

2143
01:14:09,430 --> 01:14:07,840
in the ufo world whereas with ghosts

2144
01:14:11,350 --> 01:14:09,440
there's a you know i can go in there and

2145
01:14:13,750 --> 01:14:11,360
do the scooby-doo thing myself and we've

2146
01:14:16,229 --> 01:14:13,760
had tons of great stuff happen to us

2147
01:14:17,830 --> 01:14:16,239
that have really blown my mind and

2148
01:14:19,669 --> 01:14:17,840
opened my mind in a way that ufo

2149
01:14:21,990 --> 01:14:19,679
phenomenon never did because i've never

2150
01:14:23,669 --> 01:14:22,000
had a ufo experience myself but i've had

2151
01:14:26,149 --> 01:14:23,679
plenty of ghostly encounters and

2152
01:14:27,350 --> 01:14:26,159
experiences whatever that might be and

2153
01:14:29,990 --> 01:14:27,360
i've actually come to believe that the

2154
01:14:31,830 --> 01:14:30,000
ufo phenomenon and the ghost phenomenon

2155
01:14:34,070 --> 01:14:31,840
they're all interrelated i was going to

2156
01:14:35,830 --> 01:14:34,080
ask you that question thing yeah i've

2157
01:14:37,669 --> 01:14:35,840
had a number of people kind of agreeing

2158
01:14:39,270 --> 01:14:37,679
with you um

2159
01:14:40,470 --> 01:14:39,280
over the last few years that i've talked

2160
01:14:41,830 --> 01:14:40,480
to

2161
01:14:44,070 --> 01:14:41,840
there's some type of connection there

2162
01:14:44,950 --> 01:14:44,080
and it can't like the whole paranormal

2163
01:14:46,709 --> 01:14:44,960
thing

2164
01:14:49,110 --> 01:14:46,719
is all there's some type of connection

2165
01:14:50,870 --> 01:14:49,120
the grand unifying theory right a

2166
01:14:52,229 --> 01:14:50,880
unified field theory for the paranormal

2167
01:14:53,270 --> 01:14:52,239
and if they were agreeing with me it's a

2168
01:14:54,550 --> 01:14:53,280
shame they couldn't vote in the last

2169
01:14:56,229 --> 01:14:54,560
election i could have used their votes

2170
01:14:58,310 --> 01:14:56,239
here too

2171
01:15:00,550 --> 01:14:58,320
but uh you know greg bishop has talked

2172
01:15:02,950 --> 01:15:00,560
about this for years nick redfearn mac

2173
01:15:04,630 --> 01:15:02,960
tony's when he was alive so there were a

2174
01:15:06,470 --> 01:15:04,640
lot of young guys who are now not so

2175
01:15:08,470 --> 01:15:06,480
young greg and nick and i are all in our

2176
01:15:10,390 --> 01:15:08,480
50s who have been talking about this

2177
01:15:11,750 --> 01:15:10,400
kind of idea for about 15 years

2178
01:15:14,070 --> 01:15:11,760
and you know it goes back to jacques

2179
01:15:14,950 --> 01:15:14,080
valet and john keel and others trying to

2180
01:15:17,030 --> 01:15:14,960
find

2181
01:15:18,950 --> 01:15:17,040
sort of similarities between what might

2182
01:15:20,870 --> 01:15:18,960
be a paranormal thing and then it

2183
01:15:23,350 --> 01:15:20,880
doesn't mean that it's not space aliens

2184
01:15:25,110 --> 01:15:23,360
interacting with us or it could be what

2185
01:15:27,189 --> 01:15:25,120
we might call god or some advanced

2186
01:15:29,189 --> 01:15:27,199
non-human intelligence interacting with

2187
01:15:31,830 --> 01:15:29,199
us in different ways at different times

2188
01:15:34,070 --> 01:15:31,840
for different people so in that sense

2189
01:15:36,709 --> 01:15:34,080
greg bishop calls it he has this what he

2190
01:15:38,550 --> 01:15:36,719
calls the co-creation theory which is

2191
01:15:41,510 --> 01:15:38,560
something along the lines of it has as

2192
01:15:43,510 --> 01:15:41,520
much to do with us as it does to do with

2193
01:15:46,229 --> 01:15:43,520
them so they feed things they take

2194
01:15:48,390 --> 01:15:46,239
things from us our expectations and they

2195
01:15:51,189 --> 01:15:48,400
feed them back to us in a way that is

2196
01:15:53,030 --> 01:15:51,199
almost like mac used to say he used the

2197
01:15:54,870 --> 01:15:53,040
example he had two cats he had a laser

2198
01:15:56,870 --> 01:15:54,880
pointer and he would point the laser at

2199
01:15:58,470 --> 01:15:56,880
the wall and the cats would go crazy and

2200
01:16:00,550 --> 01:15:58,480
they loved it like wow they chased the

2201
01:16:02,470 --> 01:16:00,560
laser around and everything that was his

2202
01:16:04,870 --> 01:16:02,480
way of interacting with cats they don't

2203
01:16:06,709 --> 01:16:04,880
speak human languages but he could still

2204
01:16:09,590 --> 01:16:06,719
interact with them he could enjoy

2205
01:16:12,229 --> 01:16:09,600
watching them have sort of a stimulus

2206
01:16:14,070 --> 01:16:12,239
and they could enjoy themselves and i

2207
01:16:16,709 --> 01:16:14,080
mishi okaku i had a chance to see him

2208
01:16:19,270 --> 01:16:16,719
speak in london several years ago and he

2209
01:16:21,110 --> 01:16:19,280
talked about the same kind of thing that

2210
01:16:23,189 --> 01:16:21,120
if we were dealing with an alien in

2211
01:16:25,430 --> 01:16:23,199
quotation marks intelligence wherever it

2212
01:16:26,950 --> 01:16:25,440
was from it would be so far in advance

2213
01:16:28,709 --> 01:16:26,960
of us that would have trouble

2214
01:16:30,070 --> 01:16:28,719
communicating with us in the way that

2215
01:16:32,310 --> 01:16:30,080
i'm communicating with you now in

2216
01:16:36,070 --> 01:16:32,320
language so he said it might choose

2217
01:16:37,669 --> 01:16:36,080
other methods shapes objects visions

2218
01:16:39,110 --> 01:16:37,679
that kind of stuff as a form of

2219
01:16:41,189 --> 01:16:39,120
communication

2220
01:16:43,430 --> 01:16:41,199
or even if it's not a conscious form of

2221
01:16:45,270 --> 01:16:43,440
communication it might be how we

2222
01:16:47,270 --> 01:16:45,280
perceive them and then he you know at

2223
01:16:49,830 --> 01:16:47,280
the end of his lecture at the rsa in

2224
01:16:51,110 --> 01:16:49,840
london he said the universe is weird and

2225
01:16:53,189 --> 01:16:51,120
there's a whole bunch of stuff we don't

2226
01:16:54,870 --> 01:16:53,199
know so i'm not telling you it's this

2227
01:16:56,630 --> 01:16:54,880
but i'm saying don't rule any of this

2228
01:16:59,110 --> 01:16:56,640
out i thought cool the world's foremost

2229
01:17:01,110 --> 01:16:59,120
theoretical physicist just said don't

2230
01:17:02,950 --> 01:17:01,120
rule any of this stuff out all right i

2231
01:17:04,390 --> 01:17:02,960
won't and nobody else should either

2232
01:17:05,910 --> 01:17:04,400
excellent thank you very much paul

2233
01:17:07,830 --> 01:17:05,920
thanks very much guys for all right

2234
01:17:09,590 --> 01:17:07,840
thank you very much being here yeah that

2235
01:17:11,830 --> 01:17:09,600
was really good

2236
01:17:14,630 --> 01:17:11,840
okay

2237
01:17:16,790 --> 01:17:14,640
our next guest uh aaron i'll let you say

2238
01:17:17,830 --> 01:17:16,800
his last name

2239
01:17:20,550 --> 01:17:17,840
um

2240
01:17:23,590 --> 01:17:20,560
let's let him do it

2241
01:17:30,709 --> 01:17:27,669
aaron golias uh ufo uh crashes

2242
01:17:32,390 --> 01:17:30,719
professor an american professor yes

2243
01:17:34,950 --> 01:17:32,400
yes um

2244
01:17:37,189 --> 01:17:34,960
yeah i uh i teach history at uh mock

2245
01:17:38,070 --> 01:17:37,199
community college in flint michigan and

2246
01:17:39,590 --> 01:17:38,080
um

2247
01:17:40,470 --> 01:17:39,600
i've been

2248
01:17:42,229 --> 01:17:40,480
sort of

2249
01:17:43,750 --> 01:17:42,239
writing and uh

2250
01:17:46,390 --> 01:17:43,760
and speaking about

2251
01:17:49,669 --> 01:17:46,400
ufo type things for uh

2252
01:17:52,709 --> 01:17:49,679
my first book came out in

2253
01:17:55,750 --> 01:17:52,719
2012 i'm trying to remember uh 2012 and

2254
01:17:57,750 --> 01:17:55,760
it focused on um the history of uh of

2255
01:17:59,510 --> 01:17:57,760
flying saucer contactees from the 50s

2256
01:18:02,229 --> 01:17:59,520
you know george adamski and and those

2257
01:18:05,750 --> 01:18:02,239
guys and his his misbegotten children in

2258
01:18:07,910 --> 01:18:05,760
the exo politics movement um and there's

2259
01:18:09,189 --> 01:18:07,920
there's this um

2260
01:18:11,990 --> 01:18:09,199
there's there's some other topics that

2261
01:18:13,830 --> 01:18:12,000
i've covered uh a book that that paul

2262
01:18:15,910 --> 01:18:13,840
kimball edited uh the chaos conundrum

2263
01:18:18,550 --> 01:18:15,920
his collection of essays on a wide

2264
01:18:21,030 --> 01:18:18,560
variety of of paranormal topics

2265
01:18:22,470 --> 01:18:21,040
wrote a book about conspiracy theory uh

2266
01:18:24,870 --> 01:18:22,480
conspiracy culture the development of

2267
01:18:27,110 --> 01:18:24,880
conspiracy culture through um

2268
01:18:29,510 --> 01:18:27,120
through american history and the only

2269
01:18:32,229 --> 01:18:29,520
other paranormal one i've done is a sort

2270
01:18:34,709 --> 01:18:32,239
of media studies book about the

2271
01:18:36,709 --> 01:18:34,719
interplay between

2272
01:18:39,189 --> 01:18:36,719
conspiracy and paranormal culture and

2273
01:18:41,189 --> 01:18:39,199
belief and

2274
01:18:43,910 --> 01:18:41,199
paranormal and conspiracy theory themed

2275
01:18:46,950 --> 01:18:43,920
uh sci-fi television so it's for a part

2276
01:18:49,350 --> 01:18:46,960
of a series on sci-fi studies so yeah

2277
01:18:51,750 --> 01:18:49,360
mostly mostly focusing on the uh the

2278
01:18:53,270 --> 01:18:51,760
development of um of these stories and

2279
01:18:55,510 --> 01:18:53,280
narratives and how they've changed over

2280
01:18:58,709 --> 01:18:55,520
the years and how they might influence

2281
01:18:59,990 --> 01:18:58,719
uh influence culture and be influenced

2282
01:19:01,830 --> 01:19:00,000
by culture

2283
01:19:03,750 --> 01:19:01,840
that interpret why don't you give some

2284
01:19:05,750 --> 01:19:03,760
examples if you would

2285
01:19:06,950 --> 01:19:05,760
of uh

2286
01:19:08,790 --> 01:19:06,960
like

2287
01:19:10,229 --> 01:19:08,800
roswell are you going to talk about that

2288
01:19:12,470 --> 01:19:10,239
yeah well i talked about it i talked

2289
01:19:14,550 --> 01:19:12,480
this morning so um my talk was this

2290
01:19:17,910 --> 01:19:14,560
morning and i i basically started off

2291
01:19:21,590 --> 01:19:17,920
with uh all the way back in 1897 the uh

2292
01:19:24,149 --> 01:19:21,600
april 19 april 1897 texas uh i talked

2293
01:19:26,709 --> 01:19:24,159
about aurora aurora texas and uh a much

2294
01:19:28,630 --> 01:19:26,719
lesser known case in lanark illinois

2295
01:19:30,470 --> 01:19:28,640
where there was supposedly an airship

2296
01:19:33,030 --> 01:19:30,480
that that crashed had propellers and

2297
01:19:34,790 --> 01:19:33,040
everything and uh the there were two

2298
01:19:37,430 --> 01:19:34,800
there were two news reports and these

2299
01:19:39,910 --> 01:19:37,440
news reports were were hilariously

2300
01:19:42,229 --> 01:19:39,920
fake sounding but it it

2301
01:19:44,149 --> 01:19:42,239
it played on the idea that these ships

2302
01:19:47,189 --> 01:19:44,159
had been sighted all over the united

2303
01:19:49,189 --> 01:19:47,199
states and hey one's here in town and

2304
01:19:51,189 --> 01:19:49,199
and farmer johan is charging a dollar

2305
01:19:53,110 --> 01:19:51,199
ahead to come see it and there's a guy

2306
01:19:55,270 --> 01:19:53,120
in it two of the guys are dead the third

2307
01:19:58,149 --> 01:19:55,280
one's alive he's wearing sandals with

2308
01:20:00,070 --> 01:19:58,159
tinfoil along them and a robe and uh and

2309
01:20:02,070 --> 01:20:00,080
as soon as i told him that uh that he

2310
01:20:04,470 --> 01:20:02,080
was in illinois he got up and ran away

2311
01:20:06,390 --> 01:20:04,480
and left um and it and then the reporter

2312
01:20:08,950 --> 01:20:06,400
says i went back to my hotel room to

2313
01:20:10,630 --> 01:20:08,960
smoke opium to cope with what i had seen

2314
01:20:12,390 --> 01:20:10,640
and it's it's clearly fake and there was

2315
01:20:13,669 --> 01:20:12,400
a follow-up story where where they

2316
01:20:15,189 --> 01:20:13,679
talked a little bit more about it and

2317
01:20:16,950 --> 01:20:15,199
then the third day there was a note from

2318
01:20:18,709 --> 01:20:16,960
the editor that oh we made that all up

2319
01:20:20,870 --> 01:20:18,719
that was fine but isn't it neat that

2320
01:20:23,350 --> 01:20:20,880
there's all these airships around and uh

2321
01:20:25,030 --> 01:20:23,360
the aurora texas story was a little

2322
01:20:27,910 --> 01:20:25,040
a little less fanciful it took place

2323
01:20:30,310 --> 01:20:27,920
about four days after the illinois story

2324
01:20:32,790 --> 01:20:30,320
and um this is a much more well-known

2325
01:20:34,390 --> 01:20:32,800
case and there was a newspaper report

2326
01:20:36,790 --> 01:20:34,400
that there had been a crash of an

2327
01:20:39,189 --> 01:20:36,800
airship there had been a pilot who was

2328
01:20:40,709 --> 01:20:39,199
uh basically pretty decimated by the

2329
01:20:43,669 --> 01:20:40,719
time they found him there had been a

2330
01:20:45,830 --> 01:20:43,679
burial of the of the pilot off and on

2331
01:20:49,350 --> 01:20:45,840
there has been a tombstone in the

2332
01:20:50,950 --> 01:20:49,360
cemetery um but it goes up it comes down

2333
01:20:53,110 --> 01:20:50,960
there's some question about who put it

2334
01:20:56,550 --> 01:20:53,120
there it's got some weird symbols carved

2335
01:20:58,229 --> 01:20:56,560
on it and that case from 1897 until

2336
01:21:00,550 --> 01:20:58,239
about the 1960s was pretty much left

2337
01:21:02,630 --> 01:21:00,560
alone and then in the 60s you had some

2338
01:21:04,630 --> 01:21:02,640
investigators wanting to look into it

2339
01:21:06,229 --> 01:21:04,640
there was one group of people who said

2340
01:21:07,750 --> 01:21:06,239
there's nothing to it there's another

2341
01:21:09,830 --> 01:21:07,760
group of people who comes in and says

2342
01:21:12,630 --> 01:21:09,840
well we've got some witnesses and we've

2343
01:21:14,550 --> 01:21:12,640
got some metal that we've found near the

2344
01:21:16,229 --> 01:21:14,560
scene and we want to look into it more

2345
01:21:17,910 --> 01:21:16,239
and another group comes up and says your

2346
01:21:19,830 --> 01:21:17,920
witnesses aren't credible and the metal

2347
01:21:21,430 --> 01:21:19,840
is just normal and the first group says

2348
01:21:22,630 --> 01:21:21,440
well if they'd let us dig up the body we

2349
01:21:24,550 --> 01:21:22,640
could settle it but they won't let us

2350
01:21:25,350 --> 01:21:24,560
dig up the body and there it sort of

2351
01:21:27,910 --> 01:21:25,360
sits

2352
01:21:28,790 --> 01:21:27,920
so um and then i sort of took it through

2353
01:21:31,189 --> 01:21:28,800
um

2354
01:21:33,590 --> 01:21:31,199
maury island with the sort of emergence

2355
01:21:36,709 --> 01:21:33,600
of the first men in black kind of

2356
01:21:38,870 --> 01:21:36,719
encounter and uh roswell a little bit um

2357
01:21:41,110 --> 01:21:38,880
although roswell is really its own

2358
01:21:43,750 --> 01:21:41,120
thing that you could spend hours on but

2359
01:21:45,110 --> 01:21:43,760
i did talk about some of the uh some of

2360
01:21:48,229 --> 01:21:45,120
the stranger theories that sort of

2361
01:21:49,750 --> 01:21:48,239
demonstrate how roswell has evolved over

2362
01:21:51,270 --> 01:21:49,760
time

2363
01:21:53,590 --> 01:21:51,280
that's what interests me and i've said a

2364
01:21:55,510 --> 01:21:53,600
number of times in the show that what's

2365
01:21:58,229 --> 01:21:55,520
it gonna be like in a hundred years yeah

2366
01:21:59,430 --> 01:21:58,239
you know yeah i'm i'm waiting and i i

2367
01:22:01,669 --> 01:21:59,440
don't think this will happen but what

2368
01:22:03,750 --> 01:22:01,679
would be really interesting is if after

2369
01:22:06,629 --> 01:22:03,760
a certain point the

2370
01:22:08,629 --> 01:22:06,639
alien spacecraft crash becomes well yeah

2371
01:22:10,950 --> 01:22:08,639
that's what they used to think but you

2372
01:22:12,629 --> 01:22:10,960
know then nick redfern came along with

2373
01:22:14,070 --> 01:22:12,639
his body snatchers in the desert book

2374
01:22:15,750 --> 01:22:14,080
and now we're all pretty much convinced

2375
01:22:18,310 --> 01:22:15,760
that he was right or one of the other

2376
01:22:21,830 --> 01:22:18,320
theories um that it was people from the

2377
01:22:23,830 --> 01:22:21,840
inner earth or something um so uh if

2378
01:22:25,750 --> 01:22:23,840
anybody's interested in like various

2379
01:22:28,550 --> 01:22:25,760
roswell theories the best way to sort of

2380
01:22:30,070 --> 01:22:28,560
get a good overview is um i think you

2381
01:22:31,669 --> 01:22:30,080
can get it up here it's uh it's called

2382
01:22:34,070 --> 01:22:31,679
the best of roswell it's a collection of

2383
01:22:35,590 --> 01:22:34,080
articles from fate magazine from

2384
01:22:37,590 --> 01:22:35,600
throughout fate magazine's history it's

2385
01:22:38,790 --> 01:22:37,600
got a lot of the the john keel stuff

2386
01:22:40,470 --> 01:22:38,800
where he's talking about the fugo

2387
01:22:43,350 --> 01:22:40,480
balloons and you can sort of see the

2388
01:22:45,270 --> 01:22:43,360
development of the story from the late

2389
01:22:47,590 --> 01:22:45,280
70s up through the uh up through the

2390
01:22:49,189 --> 01:22:47,600
early 21st century so that's a good a

2391
01:22:51,030 --> 01:22:49,199
good a good book

2392
01:22:52,709 --> 01:22:51,040
i got a question for aaron is

2393
01:22:54,310 --> 01:22:52,719
you being from you know the united

2394
01:22:56,229 --> 01:22:54,320
states can you tell me about how you've

2395
01:22:57,669 --> 01:22:56,239
you first heard about shag harbor and

2396
01:22:59,430 --> 01:22:57,679
just what you what you think about the

2397
01:23:00,550 --> 01:22:59,440
incident obviously it means a lot to you

2398
01:23:03,430 --> 01:23:00,560
because you've come such a long way to

2399
01:23:05,110 --> 01:23:03,440
be here yeah um shag i've read about it

2400
01:23:07,270 --> 01:23:05,120
i'd um i'd read about in like

2401
01:23:08,870 --> 01:23:07,280
collections of books although as chris

2402
01:23:10,629 --> 01:23:08,880
styles pointed out last evening kevin

2403
01:23:12,550 --> 01:23:10,639
randle's i don't know if it's called the

2404
01:23:14,550 --> 01:23:12,560
big book of flying saucer crashes but

2405
01:23:17,350 --> 01:23:14,560
that's basically what it is doesn't

2406
01:23:20,870 --> 01:23:17,360
mention it which is

2407
01:23:22,950 --> 01:23:20,880
just dumb but um yeah it i saw it in a

2408
01:23:25,590 --> 01:23:22,960
couple of books uh i hadn't really read

2409
01:23:26,870 --> 01:23:25,600
dark object until relatively recently

2410
01:23:29,189 --> 01:23:26,880
but um

2411
01:23:31,430 --> 01:23:29,199
i just sort of knew it was a

2412
01:23:34,149 --> 01:23:31,440
it was the canadian roswell which it

2413
01:23:36,390 --> 01:23:34,159
isn't it absolutely isn't uh as paul was

2414
01:23:38,790 --> 01:23:36,400
saying a bit earlier um don't paint it

2415
01:23:42,149 --> 01:23:38,800
with that brush but then last year i

2416
01:23:43,830 --> 01:23:42,159
spoke at the east coast paracon and um

2417
01:23:45,910 --> 01:23:43,840
and lori was there and chris was there

2418
01:23:47,590 --> 01:23:45,920
and so i heard the story from some

2419
01:23:50,550 --> 01:23:47,600
witnesses and from the experts and i was

2420
01:23:52,790 --> 01:23:50,560
like this is this is a lot more

2421
01:23:55,110 --> 01:23:52,800
substantive than i expected a flying

2422
01:23:56,790 --> 01:23:55,120
saucer crash story to be and so i've

2423
01:23:57,990 --> 01:23:56,800
read some more about it and since then

2424
01:23:59,590 --> 01:23:58,000
and it's

2425
01:24:02,070 --> 01:23:59,600
as i said this morning you know you look

2426
01:24:04,550 --> 01:24:02,080
at roswell you look at aztec you look at

2427
01:24:07,189 --> 01:24:04,560
aurora you look at keksburg

2428
01:24:09,669 --> 01:24:07,199
and when you look at the other much less

2429
01:24:12,550 --> 01:24:09,679
well documented and witnessed cases it

2430
01:24:14,629 --> 01:24:12,560
really highlights how much

2431
01:24:17,350 --> 01:24:14,639
how much substance there is in the crowd

2432
01:24:19,510 --> 01:24:17,360
in the shag harbor case um it's really

2433
01:24:21,990 --> 01:24:19,520
amazing um it's it's a great story the

2434
01:24:23,510 --> 01:24:22,000
witnesses are alive the witnesses

2435
01:24:25,030 --> 01:24:23,520
may not agree with with each other

2436
01:24:27,750 --> 01:24:25,040
personally but they're on the same

2437
01:24:30,629 --> 01:24:27,760
planet um and there's a

2438
01:24:31,910 --> 01:24:30,639
at least from what i've seen a minimum

2439
01:24:34,550 --> 01:24:31,920
of

2440
01:24:36,709 --> 01:24:34,560
just outrageous speculation there's some

2441
01:24:38,550 --> 01:24:36,719
speculation about what it might be but

2442
01:24:40,709 --> 01:24:38,560
the speculation is all like well yeah

2443
01:24:43,510 --> 01:24:40,719
that that could be it it could be a

2444
01:24:46,070 --> 01:24:43,520
could be an alien spacecraft it could be

2445
01:24:47,030 --> 01:24:46,080
some sort of top-secret project it could

2446
01:24:49,270 --> 01:24:47,040
be

2447
01:24:52,310 --> 01:24:49,280
some sort of natural phenomenon but you

2448
01:24:55,510 --> 01:24:52,320
know it doesn't it doesn't have the uh

2449
01:24:57,030 --> 01:24:55,520
the sort of outrageousness of a roswell

2450
01:24:58,950 --> 01:24:57,040
or a or a kexburg i haven't heard

2451
01:25:02,390 --> 01:24:58,960
anybody declare that the shag harbor

2452
01:25:04,229 --> 01:25:02,400
case is a time traveling nazi like moon

2453
01:25:05,910 --> 01:25:04,239
rocket or something like you might see

2454
01:25:09,590 --> 01:25:05,920
with something like keksburg and the

2455
01:25:11,030 --> 01:25:09,600
bell or whatever but um i

2456
01:25:12,629 --> 01:25:11,040
as much as i want

2457
01:25:15,270 --> 01:25:12,639
more attention to be placed on shag

2458
01:25:16,950 --> 01:25:15,280
harbor i also kind of don't want it to

2459
01:25:18,870 --> 01:25:16,960
fall victim to that kind of

2460
01:25:19,750 --> 01:25:18,880
outrageousness because i i want it to

2461
01:25:24,790 --> 01:25:19,760
stay

2462
01:25:26,310 --> 01:25:24,800
with it we're at the festival now what

2463
01:25:28,310 --> 01:25:26,320
do you think of the the community

2464
01:25:29,990 --> 01:25:28,320
banding together you know to promote

2465
01:25:33,030 --> 01:25:30,000
this event and you know and share it

2466
01:25:35,669 --> 01:25:33,040
with everybody i think it's great um i i

2467
01:25:38,390 --> 01:25:35,679
think it's great i uh i'm you know i'm

2468
01:25:40,070 --> 01:25:38,400
from i'm from the midwest and

2469
01:25:41,750 --> 01:25:40,080
small towns like this i mean replace

2470
01:25:43,350 --> 01:25:41,760
fishing with farming and and this is

2471
01:25:46,790 --> 01:25:43,360
pretty much like

2472
01:25:49,510 --> 01:25:46,800
the type of town i grew up in um and

2473
01:25:51,430 --> 01:25:49,520
it's it's really great and it's i think

2474
01:25:53,270 --> 01:25:51,440
this is the sort of uh this is the sort

2475
01:25:56,070 --> 01:25:53,280
of festival that uh i don't know if it

2476
01:25:58,629 --> 01:25:56,080
will but it certainly should become a uh

2477
01:26:00,870 --> 01:25:58,639
and a growing annual thing not just an

2478
01:26:02,550 --> 01:26:00,880
annual thing but the 50th anniversary

2479
01:26:03,990 --> 01:26:02,560
shouldn't be shouldn't be the high

2480
01:26:06,950 --> 01:26:04,000
watermark it would be great if it just

2481
01:26:09,110 --> 01:26:06,960
kept building and building and became

2482
01:26:11,830 --> 01:26:09,120
not just a ufo thing but a celebration

2483
01:26:14,629 --> 01:26:11,840
of the community and its history uh and

2484
01:26:17,110 --> 01:26:14,639
and other other whatever what of it i

2485
01:26:19,669 --> 01:26:17,120
can't talk what other whatever other

2486
01:26:21,189 --> 01:26:19,679
aspects of folklore might be uh might be

2487
01:26:23,910 --> 01:26:21,199
significant in this area i think it's

2488
01:26:26,709 --> 01:26:23,920
it's just a wonderful event um very well

2489
01:26:28,709 --> 01:26:26,719
put together and uh a lot of fun like i

2490
01:26:30,390 --> 01:26:28,719
said in my talk this morning any ufo

2491
01:26:32,629 --> 01:26:30,400
festival that that's just like serving

2492
01:26:33,750 --> 01:26:32,639
apple pie in the evening it's just

2493
01:26:37,189 --> 01:26:33,760
that's just

2494
01:26:39,110 --> 01:26:37,199
fantastic hey fan of twin peaks

2495
01:26:41,350 --> 01:26:39,120
you know

2496
01:26:43,510 --> 01:26:41,360
i've tried really hard to beat i've

2497
01:26:44,950 --> 01:26:43,520
tried really hard i only asked because i

2498
01:26:47,110 --> 01:26:44,960
only asked in washington now and i

2499
01:26:48,870 --> 01:26:47,120
really feel like i'm in twin peaks and

2500
01:26:50,950 --> 01:26:48,880
there's the ufo festival you know

2501
01:26:53,270 --> 01:26:50,960
there's there's um

2502
01:26:55,189 --> 01:26:53,280
sort of the sort of coastal sort of

2503
01:26:56,790 --> 01:26:55,199
small town vibe it does it does have

2504
01:26:59,189 --> 01:26:56,800
that vibe um

2505
01:27:00,870 --> 01:26:59,199
it does but uh but but everything i've

2506
01:27:02,709 --> 01:27:00,880
seen today makes much more sense than

2507
01:27:07,510 --> 01:27:02,719
any time i've tried to walk

2508
01:27:09,590 --> 01:27:07,520
so i i don't feel uneasy and confused

2509
01:27:11,350 --> 01:27:09,600
excellent well nice to meet you thanks

2510
01:27:13,110 --> 01:27:11,360
so much no problem thanks for having me

2511
01:27:14,390 --> 01:27:13,120
it was great to hear great to hear from

2512
01:27:16,709 --> 01:27:14,400
you thank you

2513
01:27:19,830 --> 01:27:16,719
um you know before i was thinking there

2514
01:27:21,590 --> 01:27:19,840
was no real timetable to this at all but

2515
01:27:23,669 --> 01:27:21,600
um i was thinking about wrapping the

2516
01:27:25,270 --> 01:27:23,679
show but i wondered if anyone in our

2517
01:27:28,070 --> 01:27:25,280
audience might have a question they'd

2518
01:27:30,310 --> 01:27:28,080
like to ask either one of us or or if

2519
01:27:35,510 --> 01:27:30,320
anyone wanted to talk about anything in

2520
01:27:40,229 --> 01:27:38,229
okay he asked uh what was our take on

2521
01:27:42,790 --> 01:27:40,239
the shag harbor

2522
01:27:44,629 --> 01:27:42,800
uh incident in general i'll go with mine

2523
01:27:46,070 --> 01:27:44,639
first uh when i

2524
01:27:47,910 --> 01:27:46,080
first looked into it like i had known

2525
01:27:49,910 --> 01:27:47,920
about it my whole life and i had you

2526
01:27:50,950 --> 01:27:49,920
know read the book don's books and

2527
01:27:52,550 --> 01:27:50,960
whatnot

2528
01:27:54,149 --> 01:27:52,560
i had no idea

2529
01:27:57,030 --> 01:27:54,159
and i had never really

2530
01:27:59,430 --> 01:27:57,040
pursued the ex the corona satellite

2531
01:28:01,350 --> 01:27:59,440
explanation uh until when i started

2532
01:28:03,750 --> 01:28:01,360
covering the shag harbor incident on my

2533
01:28:04,950 --> 01:28:03,760
show i had spoke with chris rutkowski

2534
01:28:07,510 --> 01:28:04,960
who you're probably familiar with from

2535
01:28:09,510 --> 01:28:07,520
western canada and he had he's of the

2536
01:28:11,430 --> 01:28:09,520
belief that the corona satellite could

2537
01:28:14,149 --> 01:28:11,440
be responsible and when he explained it

2538
01:28:16,229 --> 01:28:14,159
to me that to me sounded more credible

2539
01:28:18,070 --> 01:28:16,239
than any other theory that i've heard

2540
01:28:19,110 --> 01:28:18,080
and when i went online and researched

2541
01:28:21,110 --> 01:28:19,120
that as much as you could through

2542
01:28:22,550 --> 01:28:21,120
wikipedia and whatnot without diving as

2543
01:28:24,229 --> 01:28:22,560
deep as a lot of the people here would

2544
01:28:25,669 --> 01:28:24,239
have ended the story to me that just

2545
01:28:28,310 --> 01:28:25,679
seemed to be a fit

2546
01:28:29,750 --> 01:28:28,320
but at the same time you know if lori's

2547
01:28:31,510 --> 01:28:29,760
not here i'll say it

2548
01:28:35,350 --> 01:28:31,520
it seems like a flare could explain it

2549
01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:37,750
yeah

2550
01:28:41,990 --> 01:28:39,910
but not to say that's my theory i guess

2551
01:28:43,910 --> 01:28:42,000
just like everybody else here there's a

2552
01:28:45,590 --> 01:28:43,920
bot there's a bunch of theories that all

2553
01:28:47,110 --> 01:28:45,600
seem to fit there's a bunch of

2554
01:28:49,430 --> 01:28:47,120
interesting people involved there's a

2555
01:28:51,510 --> 01:28:49,440
bunch of evidence that we can look at

2556
01:28:53,910 --> 01:28:51,520
and talk about i'd love to think it's an

2557
01:28:55,910 --> 01:28:53,920
alien ship that landed but

2558
01:28:57,590 --> 01:28:55,920
that's just as likely in my mind as any

2559
01:28:59,910 --> 01:28:57,600
other explanation so i guess i have none

2560
01:29:02,149 --> 01:28:59,920
i really my interest in it is it's a

2561
01:29:04,310 --> 01:29:02,159
great story with interesting witnesses

2562
01:29:06,149 --> 01:29:04,320
that do a great job of telling the story

2563
01:29:08,470 --> 01:29:06,159
and sharing the story you have a great

2564
01:29:10,149 --> 01:29:08,480
community who's rallying around it and

2565
01:29:12,470 --> 01:29:10,159
you know putting on this great event we

2566
01:29:14,070 --> 01:29:12,480
could be in line up at walmart right now

2567
01:29:15,990 --> 01:29:14,080
in our hometowns instead of in a you

2568
01:29:18,229 --> 01:29:16,000
know a ufo festival in the middle of

2569
01:29:20,070 --> 01:29:18,239
nowhere so i think this is awesome yeah

2570
01:29:21,669 --> 01:29:20,080
um i think it's a really

2571
01:29:23,430 --> 01:29:21,679
you know i looked into it

2572
01:29:25,669 --> 01:29:23,440
when i started this show

2573
01:29:28,310 --> 01:29:25,679
back in 2011 before that i had never

2574
01:29:29,990 --> 01:29:28,320
heard of it and i think it is uh a

2575
01:29:32,390 --> 01:29:30,000
fascinating case

2576
01:29:34,790 --> 01:29:32,400
and you know like has it's been said

2577
01:29:36,390 --> 01:29:34,800
before me you know the witnesses it's

2578
01:29:38,870 --> 01:29:36,400
all about the witnesses and they're

2579
01:29:40,629 --> 01:29:38,880
they're credible witnesses uh they've

2580
01:29:43,030 --> 01:29:40,639
never gone

2581
01:29:45,110 --> 01:29:43,040
off the edge you know like you hear uh

2582
01:29:47,669 --> 01:29:45,120
some of these stories that sound good in

2583
01:29:50,149 --> 01:29:47,679
the beginning and then change over time

2584
01:29:52,790 --> 01:29:50,159
they've kind of stayed with it and uh i

2585
01:29:54,550 --> 01:29:52,800
think it's interesting uh i think it's a

2586
01:29:55,510 --> 01:29:54,560
great case i think it's one of the one

2587
01:29:57,669 --> 01:29:55,520
of the uh

2588
01:29:58,950 --> 01:29:57,679
i would consider it one of the top 10

2589
01:30:02,629 --> 01:29:58,960
cases

2590
01:30:05,110 --> 01:30:02,639
i think easily canada's top one yeah but

2591
01:30:06,950 --> 01:30:05,120
i think it's the world's top one it

2592
01:30:08,550 --> 01:30:06,960
seems to me like it there's nothing

2593
01:30:10,629 --> 01:30:08,560
crazy about it

2594
01:30:12,070 --> 01:30:10,639
with with shag harbor there's there's no

2595
01:30:14,709 --> 01:30:12,080
question something happened you can't

2596
01:30:16,310 --> 01:30:14,719
debate that in my mind some of the other

2597
01:30:17,590 --> 01:30:16,320
events

2598
01:30:20,149 --> 01:30:17,600
that are that are

2599
01:30:21,669 --> 01:30:20,159
often discussed there's there's just too

2600
01:30:23,990 --> 01:30:21,679
much debate with shag harbor too many

2601
01:30:25,830 --> 01:30:24,000
people saw it telling the same story

2602
01:30:27,110 --> 01:30:25,840
with nothing to gain

2603
01:30:30,310 --> 01:30:27,120
absolutely

2604
01:30:32,950 --> 01:30:30,320
any other questions out there

2605
01:30:36,709 --> 01:30:32,960
all right well next year what's that

2606
01:30:38,790 --> 01:30:36,719
next year come on martin 51 51 no it has

2607
01:30:39,990 --> 01:30:38,800
to be on a round number or something

2608
01:30:41,590 --> 01:30:40,000
we'll see all right

2609
01:30:43,910 --> 01:30:41,600
all right everyone so thanks so much

2610
01:30:46,149 --> 01:30:43,920
it's been uh it's been a lot of fun up

2611
01:30:48,950 --> 01:30:46,159
here uh beautiful scenery beautiful

2612
01:30:51,189 --> 01:30:48,960
coastline and uh it was a pleasure to be

2613
01:30:53,030 --> 01:30:51,199
invited up and to do this show from here

2614
01:30:54,870 --> 01:30:53,040
jordan thanks so much and

2615
01:30:57,110 --> 01:30:54,880
talk about your podcast if you would

2616
01:30:59,590 --> 01:30:57,120
yeah my podcast is called the nighttime

2617
01:31:02,470 --> 01:30:59,600
podcast it's available wherever podcasts

2618
01:31:03,669 --> 01:31:02,480
are websites nighttimepodcast.com and i

2619
01:31:07,030 --> 01:31:03,679
cover

2620
01:31:09,590 --> 01:31:07,040
canadian mysteries true crime paranormal

2621
01:31:11,510 --> 01:31:09,600
stories i cover a lot of ufo sightings

2622
01:31:13,750 --> 01:31:11,520
because i've been interested in it my

2623
01:31:15,510 --> 01:31:13,760
whole life but yeah so if you're

2624
01:31:17,030 --> 01:31:15,520
interested in hearing more about strange

2625
01:31:18,709 --> 01:31:17,040
stuff that happens in canada whether

2626
01:31:20,709 --> 01:31:18,719
it's in our skies or

2627
01:31:22,149 --> 01:31:20,719
you know underground or anywhere else

2628
01:31:24,310 --> 01:31:22,159
that's the kind of stuff i talk about on

2629
01:31:25,189 --> 01:31:24,320
my show and rather than a discussion

2630
01:31:27,030 --> 01:31:25,199
type

2631
01:31:29,430 --> 01:31:27,040
presentation like we're doing right now

2632
01:31:30,709 --> 01:31:29,440
i do more documentary style with

2633
01:31:32,870 --> 01:31:30,719
interviews and stuff that have been

2634
01:31:35,990 --> 01:31:32,880
edited beforehand yeah great a great

2635
01:31:38,229 --> 01:31:36,000
show indeed all right thanks so much and